Theism and Explanation

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Well, I guess great minds think alike.

Understood, but they sure do show neither I nor any other man did it.


No, no no. All of that is mere speculation on your part. The "method" I had engaged was merely an "approach to God", so to speak, and that effort was made after a couple of doctors (William D. Silkworth and Carl Yung) had said these things:

"Though the aggregate of recoveries resulting from psychiatric effort is considerable, we physicians must admit we have made little impression upon the problem as a whole. Many [personality] types [of alcoholics] do not respond to the ordinary psychological approach." (Silkworth)

"As to two of you men, whose stories I have heard, there is no doubt in my mind that you were 100% hopeless, apart from divine help. Had you offered yourselves as patients at this hospital, I would not have taken you, if I had been able to avoid it. People like you are too heartbreaking. Though not a religious person, I have profound respect for the spiritual approach in such cases as yours. For most cases, there is virtually no other solution." (Yung)


Possibly so, but I have no such structure (religion)!

So, in essence, you are claiming that the right religious rituals and organization cured you of alcoholism?

There are far worse substitutes for alcoholism than Christianity
Ex: Narconon

I do not, but I believe that at least for now since I have yet to ever hear any other plausible explanation.


No, I am saying the essence of ego deflation and altruism have replaced my need for and/or reliance upon alcohol, and I say Scripture seems to offer the best teachings along those kinds of lines.

I don't know that this statement is clear... a lot of psychological functions are unconscious, but they are still assigned to us in some contexts. Even further, that method still fails because the issue is also the laws of nature.


No, no speculation was given there. You were using some sort of method, that's why there is a standard prayer/walkthrough, and the results are also in some sense standard. Even further, neither of those people are considered major minds in psychology. Yung is now basically disregarded as he was both ridiculously mystical AND a disciple of Freud whose ideas are bound up in psychoanalysis. Approaches even related to his are really now only found in that damn MBTI, which is only really of value on the internet and by businesses, y'know, where people are freaking incompetent. Neither figure is a modern psychological author though.


No, "theistic structure" means theology, not religion. I don't care if you go to a church or not, my criticism is that any statement we make about the nature of God here would find itself seeming rather ridiculous. Your god magically cures alcoholics while he lets schizophrenics stay crazy, and let's thousands of other diseases go uncured. Now think about it, if this is just a supernatural cure, why not use a 12 step program for cancer? There's no difference to a God, is there? None that I can see, but this program only is used for psychological problems. Doesn't this suggest something?

Agreed, and now consider what you have said about Him ...


Yes, ridiculous.


The Twelve Steps offer a spiritual approach to removing obstacles between God, men and others ... and cancer is an entirely different kind of matter.


Yes, it suggests God has a solution when/where nobody else does.

Wait.... You smoked a joint and walked into a jail to see a man about getting sober.... and this is how God cured your alcoholism.....?

I know a guy who drove drunk to a police station and threw his beer at an officer in hopes of being locked up in a crazy attempt to get sober.. He doesn't claim God saved him... He calls it a crazy last ditch attempt by a desperate man.

Yet there are many times when "nobody else has a solution" to something like shcizophrenia, severe intellectual disability, or cancer and no divine entity offers solutions, even to devout Christians.

Cancer and alcoholism are both claimed as diseases. Both can be cured through divine power. What's the difference?


Except that other anti-alcoholism programs exist and work. God has a solution for cancer, but instead he favors alcoholics? Is that really plausible?

God can heal amputees, too.

...he just chooses not to. Apparently, god wants amputees to suffer more.

No, don't say that, please. God doesn't want anyone to suffer. It's just that it's not his fault amputees are amputees. It's all your fault, you atheist you.

Not at all. I had myself locked up so I could be sober while asking that man about a solution for the fact I could not leave the stuff alone on my own.


Agreed.


Not as far as I know.

They can? Does this mean that God is practicing medicine without a license?

ruveyn