Homosexuality and Marriage

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16 Apr 2011, 11:48 pm

:shrug: I already told you how I see it. I'm sure plenty of people have voted, so I don't see why you're picking apart my view on it.

But here you go...

"other" is generally used for positions that cannot be predicted by the person that did the poll. Not to lump everyone that doesn't have a completely black and white "all or nothing" view into one category. The poll won't really be very accurate because of this, and the fact that you didn't have an option for those that see marriage as a straight privilege kind of makes it a one sided poll.

Anyway, I'm done arguing about it. If you want me to answer questions concerning marriage equality, I will. I won't respond to anymore comments about your poll.

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blunnet
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17 Apr 2011, 12:28 am

I believe homosexuals marrying just like heterosexuals is fair.

well, the poll tends to favor gay marriage, which looks obvious, making it biased, in any case, I doubt that a thread about gay marriage can be impartial, unless that main issue is another subject.

mox
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17 Apr 2011, 12:41 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

But there is a certain, special recognition and acceptance in society that marriage carries with it that gay couples don't want to be denied any longer.

That's such garbage. Civil unions are not legally equal to marriage. A civil partner cannot visit their sick partner in the hospital, for example - they are not recognized as family or spouse, because a civil union/domestic partnership is not a "legal kinship" as a marriage is. Civil unions are also not recognized by all states. How'd you like to be told your husband/wife is in the ICU, but you can't go see them, only their second cousin from Milwaukee can?

A US citizen who is married can sponsor his or her non-American spouse for immigration into this country. Those with Civil Unions have no such privilege.

Civil Unions are not recognized by the federal government, so couples would not be able to file joint-tax returns or be eligible for tax breaks or protections the government affords to married couples.

The General Accounting Office in 1997 released a list of 1,049 benefits and protections available to heterosexual married couples, most of which are not applicable/provided to domestic partners.

In the case of wills, legal spouses (NOT domestic partners) always have more legal power than any other family member.

The list goes on for quite a while. Suffice it to say, they are not fighting for a change of title or special recognition. This is about equality for all human beings.

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cdfox7
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17 Apr 2011, 1:08 am

mox wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

But there is a certain, special recognition and acceptance in society that marriage carries with it that gay couples don't want to be denied any longer.

Correct the reference to that quotation please, as if you look at past posts I never typed that quotation.
I know from a mile off that's not my typing as I do typos due to having dyslexia.

Edit: check your quote tags

mox
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17 Apr 2011, 2:00 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

To us Birts this debate is old hat has we discussed this issues before civil partnerships where given the thumbs up.

Plenty of American states have civil unions. But the debate now lies with extending actual marriage to gay couples. There are still many people who are so homophobic that they can't handle extending the very word "marriage," and all it entails to gay Americans.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Over here civil partnerships are legal on par with civil marriages. Tho now theres the issue of the legal rights of common law marriage for homosexual partners.

Oh, civil unions for gays are the same in America, as in Britain. But there is a certain, special recognition and acceptance in society that marriage carries with it that gay couples don't want to be denied any longer.
And as a heterosexual man, I can understand, as I'd find being told that I could only be engaged in a civil union with my wife to be offensive. Being married implies you are pledged to that one, special person, who you have sworn life long devotion to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

This was where I got it from. My apologies if it looked like it came from the wrong person, that was not intentional.

cdfox7
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17 Apr 2011, 2:03 am

Apology accepted mox, thank you for clearing that up.

BurntOutMom
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17 Apr 2011, 3:51 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

BurntOutMom wrote:

I have a question.. I'm very confused by the US system of government. (yes, I'm from the US.. always have been)

I know that we are a republic and that the idea is that the majority of rule is left to individual states. Where my confusion comes in is, how is it that the federal government or Supreme Court can make decisions on the legality of same-gender marriage, abortion, capital punishment, medicinal marijuana, etc... How can individual states still dispute it and why can one of those be legal in one state and not in another. To me, it should be cut and dried, if they've found something to be legal or illegal on a federal level, then I reason that should apply to all under federal jurisdiction. I know this isn't the case, but I don't understand why.

Really, I'm not trying to induce a derailment... I'm just hoping someone can explain this to me.

Because I don't understand the role the feds really play in this, I tend to not pay much attention when some of these law are passed or revoked.. so if I've made a wrong assumption, it's because I'm truly ignorant of these things.

But I'd like not to be.

The federal government via the Supreme Court mostly decides if a state enacted law in one of these areas is constitutional or unconstitutional. Quite a variety of different laws can be enacted, reflecting different local beliefs and preferences, that are all considered constitutional.

Sometimes the federal government will write a law that is designed to supercede all local and state laws. If that law is written consistent with the constitution and the intended division of power with the states, it take can override the local law.

Is that what you are looking for?

Ok......... I think I just don't know enough about the laws themselves.
Abortion is constitutional and thereby legal in all states, but not "available" in all states... How is that?
Same-sex marriage was deemed constitutional, but blocked from being enacted by a stay....
Medicinal marijuana is legal in some states, but defies the drug scheduling act of 1970... so.... it's legal in my state, but against the law Federally?? I don't understand how the state government can allow it's people to even vote for something that breaks federal law.

The only one I really get is capital punishment, as the Constitution allows for it's use, but doesn't mandate it's use. I get that. The others, I just don't understand... and I guess that means I need to learn more about it...
I'm not asking you to explain further (It could take forever).. But I do appreciate your attempt..

I think I expect that laws should be straightforward, plain and simple, yes or no.. and nothing in the government is that easy. *sigh*

But again, thank you.

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17 Apr 2011, 9:26 am

You'll never guess who is about to come out in support of homosexual marriage

http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/w0010119.html

Quote:

Elton John Wants Rush Limbaugh to Support Gay Marriage

'My goal is for Rush to say, 'I support civil partnerships'. If I rang him right now, I think he might agree,' the singer quipped.

Elton John is convinced he can force outspoken U.S. radio host Rush Limbaugh to relax his stance against gay marriage after performing at his wedding. The British rocker was stunned when Limbaugh invited him to play at the ceremony - because he always thought the hardline conservative was anti-gay.

He tells the new issue of Rolling Stone magazine, "I could not believe when I was asked to play. I thought it was a joke. I had dialog with him before and he said, 'I'm not anti-gay, I want you to come, bring (partner) David (Furnish).'"

And now Elton is hoping to use his relationship with Limbaugh to make the top-rated radio star see sense about gay marriage. He adds, "My goal is for Rush to say, 'I support civil partnerships'. If I rang him right now, I think he might agree. He was one of the first people to congratulate us on the baby."

Elton and Furnish became fathers to a baby boy, born via surrogate, at Christmas.

imbatshitcrazy
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17 Apr 2011, 10:27 am

blunnet wrote:

finally, SOMEONE explaining their reasonings as to why they think the poll is biased

Kraichgauer
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17 Apr 2011, 6:22 pm

mox wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

To us Birts this debate is old hat has we discussed this issues before civil partnerships where given the thumbs up.

Over here civil partnerships are legal on par with civil marriages. Tho now theres the issue of the legal rights of common law marriage for homosexual partners.

This was where I got it from. My apologies if it looked like it came from the wrong person, that was not intentional.

But did you understand what I was saying?
If it came across that I was saying that civil unions are an acceptable substitution for marriage, then I suppose I didn't make myself clear, as I am a supporter of gay marriage.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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