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SPKx
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14 Dec 2011, 12:20 pm

I believe that no one should have to explain why they are religious or not (for the record, I'm a practicing Catholic).



iamnotaparakeet
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14 Dec 2011, 2:14 pm

Fulfillment of the messianic prophecies in Christ, that even Christ's disciples were tortured to death for their beliefs in Christ and did not reject Him to save their lives, the survival of the Church through three hundred years of persecution by Rome prior to Rome being conquered by the Church.



blunnet
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14 Dec 2011, 4:54 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Fulfillment of the messianic prophecies in Christ, that even Christ's disciples were tortured to death for their beliefs in Christ and did not reject Him to save their lives, the survival of the Church through three hundred years of persecution by Rome prior to Rome being conquered by the Church.

Or the church corrupted by Rome.

ruveyn wrote:
Is it a bad thing to remind folks there is zero empirical evidence that God exists?

well, William Lane Craig and 91 save the day by reminding us that calling for "empirical evidence for God to the claim being considered factual" can be dismissed. Apparantly, winning debates seems to be enough.



NineTailedFox
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14 Dec 2011, 5:13 pm

Funny thing, my parents are religious but have never talked about it with me. We only go to church when someone dies. I did used to go to a Christian school when I was a kid, and I hated it. Never did believe in God.



rocklobster
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15 Dec 2011, 7:35 am

ruveyn wrote:
rocklobster wrote:
pandabear wrote:
krazykat wrote:
I wish I could explain it, but it would be like trying to explain to a crowd of belligerent blind people what the experience of the color blue is like.

So, that is my answer to the OP's topic of why I am a Christian.
I will now take my leave of this thread and you guys can have fun with your derail-fest :roll:


Are we really that bad?

Yes. You atheists are like Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher clones, especially the ones on this site.


Is it a bad thing to remind folks there is zero empirical evidence that God exists?

ruveyn

That's not the issue. The issue is your smugness and treating us like we're simpletons. We're not. There's lots of intelligent people who believe in a higher power. You atheists should realize that.



NineTailedFox
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15 Dec 2011, 8:20 am

Yes well, there's lot's of intelligent New Earth Creationists, that doesn't mean their position should be taken seriously.



Kraichgauer
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15 Dec 2011, 12:53 pm

NineTailedFox wrote:
Yes well, there's lot's of intelligent New Earth Creationists, that doesn't mean their position should be taken seriously.


Plenty of Christians believe the earth is in fact four and a half billion years old, and believe in an evolutionary process in nature.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



pandabear
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15 Dec 2011, 1:39 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
NineTailedFox wrote:
Yes well, there's lot's of intelligent New Earth Creationists, that doesn't mean their position should be taken seriously.


Plenty of Christians believe the earth is in fact four and a half billion years old, and believe in an evolutionary process in nature.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Yeah, but they're not the ones who open themselves up ridicule.



Kraichgauer
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15 Dec 2011, 2:10 pm

pandabear wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
NineTailedFox wrote:
Yes well, there's lot's of intelligent New Earth Creationists, that doesn't mean their position should be taken seriously.


Plenty of Christians believe the earth is in fact four and a half billion years old, and believe in an evolutionary process in nature.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Yeah, but they're not the ones who open themselves up ridicule.


Yes. We mainline Christians probably ridicule them as much as atheists do.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Telekon
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15 Dec 2011, 2:17 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Is it a bad thing to remind folks there is zero empirical evidence that God exists?

ruveyn


Yes, because it is sophistical. If God exists he's not a sense datum. Any proof of God's existence would be metaphysical.



donnie_darko
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16 Dec 2011, 5:15 am

kxmode wrote:
Jesus said "God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth." (John 4:24) In other words God is not a physical being like you and me. But Jesus said the only way to worship him IS in spirit and with truth (our worship cannot be tainted with lies). Trying to explain God to someone who requires a physical form as proof is difficult. But the proof is all around us in every creation from the atomic to cosmic. The absolute perfection and orderliness between these two extremes cannot be dismissed as mere chance.

Let's take, for example, something as trivial as the Paper Wasp. They have been described as masters of engineering. Why is this description fitting?

As its name suggests, the paper wasp builds and maintains its compound nest out of a special kind of paper, which it manufactures itself. The insect collects fibers of plants and of dead wood from all kinds of places such as logs, fence posts, telephone poles, and building materials. It then chews the cellulose-rich material, adding a sticky, high protein saliva. When applied, the resulting paste dries to form a light, firm, yet tough, paper. Moreover, the saliva has special properties that enable the paper to generate and absorb heat, thus maintaining the right temperature in the brood comb on cool days.

This wasp builds its nest “mouthful by mouthful.” The finished product is a waterproof, paper umbrella-covered cluster of hexagonal cells. Why a hexagon? The hexagonal pattern combines strength and efficiency. Wasps that live in wetter areas simply add more oral secretion because of its water-resistant properties. That said, the insects select sites that offer some kind of protective overhang. From this they suspend their downward-facing nests by a stalk, or petiole. Moreover, paper wasps do no harm to the environment — unlike our paper making processes, which pollute air, water, and land!

Understandably, architects and researchers are studying the wasp’s products with a view to designing superior building materials that are lightweight, strong, more flexible, and biodegradable.

Ask yourself this. Did an insect with a brain roughly the size of two grains of sand figure out papermaking and efficient nest architecture by itself? Or are its chemical- and mechanical-engineering skills evidence of design? This is an example of just one species of wasp among thousands. This doesn't discount other insects, animals, plants, humans and so forth... and we haven't left earth yet.

Why would people not believe God exists from the clear evidence all around? I don't really know. Thinking about the Paper Wasp I leave it up to Paul's explanation at Romans 1:20-21: "For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable; because, although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their unintelligent heart became darkened."


This is why I lean towards a Designer - however, why you believe the true god is Yahweh, god of the Hebrews?



MCalavera
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16 Dec 2011, 5:22 am

donnie_darko wrote:
This is why I lean towards a Designer - however, why you believe the true god is Yahweh, god of the Hebrews?


Natural selection is a much better explanation than the Designer.



MCalavera
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16 Dec 2011, 5:25 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Fulfillment of the messianic prophecies in Christ


I already showed you in another thread that these weren't remakrable prophecies that could have only be fulfilled in one specific way

Quote:
that even Christ's disciples were tortured to death for their beliefs in Christ and did not reject Him to save their lives


Strength of faith to the point of death is not evidence for its validity. Think suicide cults.

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the survival of the Church through three hundred years of persecution by Rome prior to Rome being conquered by the Church.


Means nothing. Think Jews.



HDLMatchette
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24 Aug 2015, 12:52 am

because i don't think anything on earth could exist without some supernatural being.