What to do with the colorado theater shooter

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What should his sentence be?
Death 38%  38%  [ 11 ]
Prison 62%  62%  [ 18 ]
Total votes : 29

naturalplastic
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22 Jul 2012, 11:49 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
It's impossible to say right now. We don't know the extent of his mental illness or why he committed these crimes.


We don't even know that he was mentally ill.....I mean if he's so mentally ill how the hell did he manage to go through life showing no signs of it, plan this all out at length and go legally buy guns. If he had some severe mental illness its likely he would not have even been able to buy the gun.


People frequently dont manifest psychosis until they are about his (and your) age- their early twenties.


Even if he had been psychotic for a long time -im not sure how that would stop him from buying guns-as long as his psychosis didnt cause him to have a police record.



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22 Jul 2012, 11:54 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
It's impossible to say right now. We don't know the extent of his mental illness or why he committed these crimes.


We don't even know that he was mentally ill.....I mean if he's so mentally ill how the hell did he manage to go through life showing no signs of it, plan this all out at length and go legally buy guns. If he had some severe mental illness its likely he would not have even been able to buy the gun.


People frequently dont manifest psychosis until they are about his (and your) age- their early twenties.


Even if he had been psychotic for a long time -im not sure how that would stop him from buying guns-as long as his psychosis didnt cause him to have a police record.


Psychosis does not typically involve carefully planning a mass shooting in a movie theater and collecting all the necessarily supplies to do so. Psychosis would be more like you are afraid someones out to get you or something and see yourself as defending against them. I mean psychosis would be comparable to a bad psychedelic trip in my opinion and I think it would be pretty hard to plan out something like that in such a state of mind.

Also psychosis is a break from reality, its wouldn't really be possible not to show signs of it...also usually a state of psychosis does not last for an extended period of time its something one with a psychotic disorder will experience at times but not 24/7.


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22 Jul 2012, 1:53 pm

heavenlyabyss wrote:
I hate to say this but I agree with AspieRogue. It's not about getting inside his head, it's about objectively treating him the way he deserves to be treated. If you show him compassion you are enabling him.

If you want to pour your empathy anywhere, your time will be much better spent directing it towards the real victims. Anything else is a complete and utter waste of time unless you are his defense lawyer.

Knowledge is not everything in this world.


Who's saying anything about knowledge, or even compassion? The issue people are having is that the OP is explicitly endorsing the idea of punitive rape, and to a lot of people including myself, that's not OK, and a bit creepy considering how often he brings it up.


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22 Jul 2012, 1:55 pm

Dox47 wrote:
heavenlyabyss wrote:
I hate to say this but I agree with AspieRogue. It's not about getting inside his head, it's about objectively treating him the way he deserves to be treated. If you show him compassion you are enabling him.

If you want to pour your empathy anywhere, your time will be much better spent directing it towards the real victims. Anything else is a complete and utter waste of time unless you are his defense lawyer.

Knowledge is not everything in this world.


Who's saying anything about knowledge, or even compassion? The issue people are having is that the OP is explicitly endorsing the idea of punitive rape, and to a lot of people including myself, that's not OK, and a bit creepy considering how often he brings it up.


I think I might have to agree here.


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naturalplastic
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22 Jul 2012, 2:46 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
It's impossible to say right now. We don't know the extent of his mental illness or why he committed these crimes.


We don't even know that he was mentally ill.....I mean if he's so mentally ill how the hell did he manage to go through life showing no signs of it, plan this all out at length and go legally buy guns. If he had some severe mental illness its likely he would not have even been able to buy the gun.


People frequently dont manifest psychosis until they are about his (and your) age- their early twenties.


Even if he had been psychotic for a long time -im not sure how that would stop him from buying guns-as long as his psychosis didnt cause him to have a police record.


Psychosis does not typically involve carefully planning a mass shooting in a movie theater and collecting all the necessarily supplies to do so. Psychosis would be more like you are afraid someones out to get you or something and see yourself as defending against them. I mean psychosis would be comparable to a bad psychedelic trip in my opinion and I think it would be pretty hard to plan out something like that in such a state of mind.

Also psychosis is a break from reality, its wouldn't really be possible not to show signs of it...also usually a state of psychosis does not last for an extended period of time its something one with a psychotic disorder will experience at times but not 24/7.


Without going into the thorny depths of defining "what is insanity", but I thinks thats ass-backward.

I agree that he might not be considered legally insane. Legal insanity usually means that you are basically sane person who temporarily flipped out due to something external-like finding your spouse in bed with a lover.


But a person who would plot for years to murder strangers in a movie theatre -well how is that NOT insane? Youd certainly be more insane than a cukholded spouse who temporarily flips out who is considered legally insane. But Im speaking of clinical, not legal, insanity.

The Unabomber was just like this aurora killer- but far more so! The unabomber devoted decades to his plan that involved making and sending homemade handcrafted bombs.

And indeed his lawyer tried to get cop an insanity plea for him.

But even if the unabomber may not have been legally insane (there was nothing temporary about his condition) surely you dont consider Ted Kozinski to be sane-in the common sense usage of the term-do you!?!?!?!?!?!?!?



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22 Jul 2012, 3:14 pm

Dox47 wrote:
heavenlyabyss wrote:
I hate to say this but I agree with AspieRogue. It's not about getting inside his head, it's about objectively treating him the way he deserves to be treated. If you show him compassion you are enabling him.

If you want to pour your empathy anywhere, your time will be much better spent directing it towards the real victims. Anything else is a complete and utter waste of time unless you are his defense lawyer.

Knowledge is not everything in this world.


Who's saying anything about knowledge, or even compassion? The issue people are having is that the OP is explicitly endorsing the idea of punitive rape, and to a lot of people including myself, that's not OK, and a bit creepy considering how often he brings it up.


Twisting peoples' figure of speechs, light jokes, or words for that matter is such darn fun isn't it. :? OP asked in their first post if you think the loser should get jail or execution. It's not very hard to understand if you.. you know,.. actualy tried.

"a lot of people" Where did those "lots of people" post their support? You're proof? This is only 6 pages. Oh wait, it's just that tactic. I'm familior with that to. oops.



Last edited by LiendaBalla on 22 Jul 2012, 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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22 Jul 2012, 3:16 pm

Aspierogue, the OP wrote:
What he needs is to spend the rest of his life being *violated* by other inmates on a regular basis and the plight of his booty behind bars used as an example to other potential/would-be mass shooters as to what REALLY happens to people who do this.


Tried; succeeded. That's what he said.



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22 Jul 2012, 3:18 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:
Aspierogue, the OP wrote:
What he needs is to spend the rest of his life being *violated* by other inmates on a regular basis and the plight of his booty behind bars used as an example to other potential/would-be mass shooters as to what REALLY happens to people who do this.


Tried; succeeded. That's what he said.


You know what continues to be amusing? We both said inmates. Not guards. whoopsie. I guess you guys think inmates are the guys in charge of the cell blocks. Corrective rape, right? :) :shrug: If not, I fail to see where you are going with this.



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22 Jul 2012, 3:25 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
It's impossible to say right now. We don't know the extent of his mental illness or why he committed these crimes.


We don't even know that he was mentally ill.....I mean if he's so mentally ill how the hell did he manage to go through life showing no signs of it, plan this all out at length and go legally buy guns. If he had some severe mental illness its likely he would not have even been able to buy the gun.


People frequently dont manifest psychosis until they are about his (and your) age- their early twenties.


Even if he had been psychotic for a long time -im not sure how that would stop him from buying guns-as long as his psychosis didnt cause him to have a police record.


Psychosis does not typically involve carefully planning a mass shooting in a movie theater and collecting all the necessarily supplies to do so. Psychosis would be more like you are afraid someones out to get you or something and see yourself as defending against them. I mean psychosis would be comparable to a bad psychedelic trip in my opinion and I think it would be pretty hard to plan out something like that in such a state of mind.

Also psychosis is a break from reality, its wouldn't really be possible not to show signs of it...also usually a state of psychosis does not last for an extended period of time its something one with a psychotic disorder will experience at times but not 24/7.


Without going into the thorny depths of defining "what is insanity", but I thinks thats ass-backward.

I agree that he might not be considered legally insane. Legal insanity usually means that you are basically sane person who temporarily flipped out due to something external-like finding your spouse in bed with a lover.


But a person who would plot for years to murder strangers in a movie theatre -well how is that NOT insane? Youd certainly be more insane than a cukholded spouse who temporarily flips out who is considered legally insane. But Im speaking of clinical, not legal, insanity.

The Unabomber was just like this aurora killer- but far more so! The unabomber devoted decades to his plan that involved making and sending homemade handcrafted bombs.

And indeed his lawyer tried to get cop an insanity plea for him.

But even if the unabomber may not have been legally insane (there was nothing temporary about his condition) surely you dont consider Ted Kozinski to be sane-in the common sense usage of the term-do you!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


Unless symptoms of a mental illness contributed or external factors pushed him to some internal breaking point, then It wouldn't be legal insanity or clinical insanity. Though in all reality insanity is not even a clinical term....the closest thing to insanity clincially would be mental disorders and/or mental illnesses and if anything the idea that mentally ill people are typically ticking time bombs waiting to explode needs to go away because I hate the stigma. Now sure with mental illnesses it can be a struggle to keep control of the symptoms and it is possible to lose control but its not a planned thing like this mass shooting was.

Also were the nazis insane? as far as I know that is not how they are referred to in most history books so my conclusion is sane people can do terrible things........not to mention statistics show its more likely those with mental illnesses are more likely to be the victim of violent crimes than the perpetrators. Not to mention I have a feeling I was probably more 'insane' than the bullies who bullied me as a child..hence I had depression, anxiety and AS, just more evidence that 'sane' people can do terrible things for terrible reasons such as domination, power or because they can even. I think someone has to be pretty sane and clear of mind to come up with such an effective mass shooting plan...and all that he did to his apartment to make it a distraction or whatever.


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22 Jul 2012, 3:33 pm

Quote:
You know what continues to be amusing? We both said inmates. Not guards. whoopsie. I guess you guys think inmates are the guys in charge of the cell blocks. Corrective rape, right? If not, I fail to see where you are going with this.


Another incorrect use of the phrase "corrective rape".
Just saying.



peebo
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22 Jul 2012, 3:34 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
It's impossible to say right now. We don't know the extent of his mental illness or why he committed these crimes.


We don't even know that he was mentally ill.....I mean if he's so mentally ill how the hell did he manage to go through life showing no signs of it, plan this all out at length and go legally buy guns. If he had some severe mental illness its likely he would not have even been able to buy the gun.


People frequently dont manifest psychosis until they are about his (and your) age- their early twenties.


Even if he had been psychotic for a long time -im not sure how that would stop him from buying guns-as long as his psychosis didnt cause him to have a police record.


Psychosis does not typically involve carefully planning a mass shooting in a movie theater and collecting all the necessarily supplies to do so. Psychosis would be more like you are afraid someones out to get you or something and see yourself as defending against them. I mean psychosis would be comparable to a bad psychedelic trip in my opinion and I think it would be pretty hard to plan out something like that in such a state of mind.

Also psychosis is a break from reality, its wouldn't really be possible not to show signs of it...also usually a state of psychosis does not last for an extended period of time its something one with a psychotic disorder will experience at times but not 24/7.


Without going into the thorny depths of defining "what is insanity", but I thinks thats ass-backward.

I agree that he might not be considered legally insane. Legal insanity usually means that you are basically sane person who temporarily flipped out due to something external-like finding your spouse in bed with a lover.


But a person who would plot for years to murder strangers in a movie theatre -well how is that NOT insane? Youd certainly be more insane than a cukholded spouse who temporarily flips out who is considered legally insane. But Im speaking of clinical, not legal, insanity.

The Unabomber was just like this aurora killer- but far more so! The unabomber devoted decades to his plan that involved making and sending homemade handcrafted bombs.

And indeed his lawyer tried to get cop an insanity plea for him.

But even if the unabomber may not have been legally insane (there was nothing temporary about his condition) surely you dont consider Ted Kozinski to be sane-in the common sense usage of the term-do you!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


actually you're quite wrong here. the legal definition of insanity has nothing to do with the duration of the insanity, other than, of course, the fact that the accused would at least have been considered to be insane at the time of the crime. no, insanity doesn't need to be permanent to utilise the defence, but neither does it have to be temporary. your example (angry man whose wife is in bed with someone else) would not stand up in court as an insanity plea, or even likely diminished responsibility. the perpetrator here was simply angry. anger is not a form of insanity.

it rests on whether the accused has any real understanding of having committed the act, and subsequently of the act having been wrong, i.e. mental capacity. in the western world it generally dates back to the acquittal of daniel mcnaughton following on his assassination attempt on robert peel.

see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%27Naghten_Rules


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22 Jul 2012, 3:40 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
You know what continues to be amusing? We both said inmates. Not guards. whoopsie. I guess you guys think inmates are the guys in charge of the cell blocks. Corrective rape, right? If not, I fail to see where you are going with this.


Another incorrect use of the phrase "corrective rape".
Just saying.


See, OP? Why even try? *looks at sig.* Oh never mind. My patience is at and end.

corrective [kəˈrɛktɪv]
adj
tending or intended to correct
n
something that tends or is intended to correct
correctively adv.

Here's a link. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/corrective

What is prison for? Anyone? Criminal correction! *applause* Who controls correction? :D YEAH EXACTLY! Do the inmates? Of course not. *tee hee* Do some things happen with the cops not present? hmmm..... let me think.... YEAH. :|



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22 Jul 2012, 3:55 pm

LiendaBalla wrote:
You know what continues to be amusing? We both said inmates. Not guards. whoopsie. I guess you guys think inmates are the guys in charge of the cell blocks. Corrective rape, right? :) :shrug: If not, I fail to see where you are going with this.


I don't care who does it. If it happens, and it's anticipated, it's punitive rape.
That's all I mean. Ready to rant some more?



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22 Jul 2012, 7:56 pm

Corrective rape is the rape of lesbians in order to (supposedly) turn them straight.
It isn't rape by guards, or rape by prisoners, or rape by anyone to punish crimes.

Quote:
See, OP? Why even try? *looks at sig.* Oh never mind. My patience is at and end.


You must have very little patience. I don't recall us ever having a conversation before.

Quote:
corrective [kəˈrɛktɪv]
adj
tending or intended to correct
n
something that tends or is intended to correct
correctively adv


That is indeed the definition of "corrective". However, "corrective rape" is what we call a PHRASE. That's two or more words used together. Sometimes a phrase has a somewhat different meaning than the individual words that comprise it.



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22 Jul 2012, 8:06 pm

advocating rape violates the rules of WrongPlanet, regardless of who you are talking about:

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The following activities are unacceptable on WrongPlanet:

1. Posting offensive language, comments, video, or images.
Unacceptable content includes swearing; racist, sexist, homophobic language; behavior intended to provoke or belittle other members; violent or sexually demeaning content; sexual fetish; and discussion of excretory function. Posting graphic images or videos of people or animals being harmed is prohibited.


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