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Is there anything to "Men's Rights" groups?

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MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 4:53 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I'm proposing that this be addressed, but feminists seem to trivialize this and think it's silly. I think it's serious.

how are you proposing that it should be addressed? and what are your ideas to fix this?


Do you agree it needs to be addressed?

that was not an answer. i asked two questions.


Ok, and I'm asking you a question in response.

What are you fishing for exactly? You don't really care about the details, do you?

if i did not care about the details, i would not ask.

i don't really understand why you seem to care more about your straw feminist's opinions than about actual solutions. so i am opening a dialogue about solutions. again, what would fix the problem, and how do you think feminism should address it?


What's straw about the feminists I speak of? They're real flesh and blood like you are.

What do you think of a school subject that teaches the nuances of dating and relationships?



Telekon
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22 Feb 2013, 4:54 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Ask the sex-positive feminists. I think I'm in love with them.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

LOL

Image

Image

Whatever floats your boat, I guess.



Last edited by Telekon on 22 Feb 2013, 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hyperlexian
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22 Feb 2013, 4:55 pm

^^^i've suggested that on the forum, myself. i think it is a great idea. it could cover everything from consent to reading signals of interest to... foreplay. i am on board with that.

EDIT: the rapid-fire posts made my post nonsensical. i meant MCalavera's idea of school teaching dating stuff.


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Last edited by hyperlexian on 22 Feb 2013, 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 4:56 pm

What's wrong with her? :P

Is it the hair you're laughing about?



mercifullyfree
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22 Feb 2013, 4:56 pm

Telekon wrote:
You have to think about how people lived in the distant past. Effeminacy in males was probably a sign of physical weakness and therefore a maladaptive trait. You don't have to investigate pre-history to see this either. Do you think effeminate men tamed the wild west, or fought medieval battles with swords and clubs? Fag-calling is a subconscious way of culling the herd. Please understand that I'm only answering the "why" question you started out with, not trying to justify nasty name calling.


Civilization takes more than grunting and stabbing each other. It also takes restraint, creativity and art, philosophy, science and medicine, etc etc etc. There are plenty of important roles which effeminate men are quite capable of filling... and they have done so throughout history. Even in ancient tribal societies, there are shamanic roles.

I can't say I understand hatred towards effeminate males at all. It seems bizarre and irrational even with your explanation. Is it rational to hate scholars and want to cull them from the herd because they aren't the type who were running around hitting things with swords and clubs in the past.



MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 4:58 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
^^^i've suggested that on the forum, myself. i think it is a great idea. it could cover everything from consent to reading signals of interest to... foreplay. i am on board with that.


Well, that's good then. If a movement can arise out of this, why not?



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22 Feb 2013, 5:05 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
^^^i've suggested that on the forum, myself. i think it is a great idea. it could cover everything from consent to reading signals of interest to... foreplay. i am on board with that.

EDIT: the rapid-fire posts made my post nonsensical. i meant MCalavera's idea of school teaching dating stuff.


Who gets to decide what is taught and why am I wasting my tax dollars on it?


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hyperlexian
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22 Feb 2013, 5:08 pm

MCalavera wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
^^^i've suggested that on the forum, myself. i think it is a great idea. it could cover everything from consent to reading signals of interest to... foreplay. i am on board with that.


Well, that's good then. If a movement can arise out of this, why not?

i think our dating system is kind of broken. it is changing too fast, society is shifting too rapidly (yes i sound old, but hear me out). decades or centuries ago, people knew other people from their town, and even if they were settlers or something, they usually lived in smaller tight-knit communities.

now, people can't rely on friends and family to pass on information about good matches, and it seems like people are flying blind. the rules have not fully changed, so in a sense the old traditions are blended with technology but it's an uneasy fit. social networking, dating sites and etc are a good try, but they are a poor substitute for a the way a small community used to function. plus immigration is becoming more universal, so cultures are blending and i think we need more of a standardised dialogue of what dating really means now (not dictate what it has to entail though).

i think we need new tools to deal with the way our societies are changing, and parents are too removed from the culture in a sense. but schools tend to be more closely involved in up-to-the-minute changes and culture shifts.

but to be fair, i don't think it would necessarily happen. maybe at a college level?


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hyperlexian
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22 Feb 2013, 5:11 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
^^^i've suggested that on the forum, myself. i think it is a great idea. it could cover everything from consent to reading signals of interest to... foreplay. i am on board with that.

EDIT: the rapid-fire posts made my post nonsensical. i meant MCalavera's idea of school teaching dating stuff.


Who gets to decide what is taught and why am I wasting my tax dollars on it?

yeah, it really isn't feasible i think. the curriculum is surprisingly driven by industry and business stakeholders and government, so as long as there is no incentive from those directions to change anything, it won't likely happen.


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MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 5:19 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
^^^i've suggested that on the forum, myself. i think it is a great idea. it could cover everything from consent to reading signals of interest to... foreplay. i am on board with that.


Well, that's good then. If a movement can arise out of this, why not?

i think our dating system is kind of broken. it is changing too fast, society is shifting too rapidly (yes i sound old, but hear me out). decades or centuries ago, people knew other people from their town, and even if they were settlers or something, they usually lived in smaller tight-knit communities.

now, people can't rely on friends and family to pass on information about good matches, and it seems like people are flying blind. the rules have not fully changed, so in a sense the old traditions are blended with technology but it's an uneasy fit. social networking, dating sites and etc are a good try, but they are a poor substitute for a the way a small community used to function. plus immigration is becoming more universal, so cultures are blending and i think we need more of a standardised dialogue of what dating really means now (not dictate what it has to entail though).

i think we need new tools to deal with the way our societies are changing, and parents are too removed from the culture in a sense. but schools tend to be more closely involved in up-to-the-minute changes and culture shifts.

but to be fair, i don't think it would necessarily happen. maybe at a college level?


I think at a high school-college level would be great. As I said before, if the idea is theoretically good, then that's half the battle won. The other half would be to establish a movement with the effort to go about it and convince the majority that this is something that will benefit the newer generations when it comes to dating and relationships.

It's true that it doesn't seem likely now, but when I think of the way education is heading via online education systems like Khan Academy and Udacity and how they've already started to "flip the classroom" so to speak, I think it's easily possible for something similar to happen to the dating world.

Well, glad we agree on this one. But the key is for a good quantity of people (and especially leaders) to agree with this. I can see both feminists and non-feminists alike who would find this idea quite ok, but there are those who don't welcome it as of now.



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22 Feb 2013, 5:22 pm

Quote:
i think our dating system is kind of broken. it is changing too fast, society is shifting too rapidly (yes i sound old, but hear me out). decades or centuries ago, people knew other people from their town, and even if they were settlers or something, they usually lived in smaller tight-knit communities.

now, people can't rely on friends and family to pass on information about good matches, and it seems like people are flying blind. the rules have not fully changed, so in a sense the old traditions are blended with technology but it's an uneasy fit. social networking, dating sites and etc are a good try, but they are a poor substitute for a the way a small community used to function. plus immigration is becoming more universal, so cultures are blending and i think we need more of a standardised dialogue of what dating really means now (not dictate what it has to entail though).

i think we need new tools to deal with the way our societies are changing, and parents are too removed from the culture in a sense. but schools tend to be more closely involved in up-to-the-minute changes and culture shifts.


I'd like to add that I think Hollywood is contributing to people's unrealistic dating/marriage expectations.

Just my humble opinion.

Quote:
yeah, it really isn't feasible i think. the curriculum is surprisingly driven by industry and business stakeholders and government, so as long as there is no incentive from those directions to change anything, it won't likely happen.


Precisely.

Besides, we can't even get parents to agree on "sex ed" let alone "dating ed."

I think dating, romance, and sex are too highly personalized and our culture is too diverse for the subject to be effectively dealt with by a government entity.


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22 Feb 2013, 8:27 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:
Case in point. On this thread and others, there are guys expressing sexual frustration and claiming women have it oh so easy. On another thread in the L&D, there are guys claiming they're turned off by women "throwing themselves" at them, being "clingy" and how uncomfortable they are with desperate ugly or overweight women's sexual advances. One could lump these men all together and make the sweeping assertion that "Men are hypocritical and full of crap" or just realize that they are different men with different opinions, wants and experiences. I go with the latter.


Sexually frustrated men often blame Feminism, hire executive ejaculatory administrators where legal, etc. etc. Whom do sexually frustrated women blame, and what is their outlet? Do they blame their plight on MRAs? Misogynists? Patriarchs?



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22 Feb 2013, 10:48 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
mercifullyfree wrote:
Case in point. On this thread and others, there are guys expressing sexual frustration and claiming women have it oh so easy. On another thread in the L&D, there are guys claiming they're turned off by women "throwing themselves" at them, being "clingy" and how uncomfortable they are with desperate ugly or overweight women's sexual advances. One could lump these men all together and make the sweeping assertion that "Men are hypocritical and full of crap" or just realize that they are different men with different opinions, wants and experiences. I go with the latter.


Sexually frustrated men often blame Feminism, hire executive ejaculatory administrators where legal, etc. etc. Whom do sexually frustrated women blame, and what is their outlet? Do they blame their plight on MRAs? Misogynists? Patriarchs?

They blame porn.


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ArrantPariah
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22 Feb 2013, 11:03 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
mercifullyfree wrote:
You were theorizing that male sexuality is biologically different than female sexuality in that men want sex more. If this were true, then it wouldn't differ based on country. American women's sex drive and Thailand women's sex drive would be at the same low level. Therefore, if these women in Thailand are a lot more willing to have sex with you, it isn't because they like you or are enjoying it, but because there is some pressure on them to do so. You were saying you'll reduce sexual pressure on women by putting pressure on... other women! That's what didn't make sense to me.


I don't think so, necessarily. It's NOT just guys doing things like this, and besides, I highly doubt Thai society pushes Thai women to have sex with foreign men. Actually, it's novelty sex. The same thing happens over here. Male Turkish exchange students typically go home loaded with STD's after a semester in Europe or the U.S. "Study abroad" programs are majority women for a reason.


Here is a recent documentary

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnkoPV_Lrbg[/youtube]

I've been to those islands--back in the 1980s, it was just backpackers/travelers. Not much for the wealthier tourists.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend getting romantically involved with a Thai executive ejaculatory administrator, particularly with those who congregate in places frequented by foreign men with money to burn.

Anyway, Thailand seems more of a destination for Europeans and Australians. Few Americans would be able to find Thailand on a globe, much less care to be able to find it.



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23 Feb 2013, 2:52 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
mercifullyfree wrote:
You were theorizing that male sexuality is biologically different than female sexuality in that men want sex more. If this were true, then it wouldn't differ based on country. American women's sex drive and Thailand women's sex drive would be at the same low level. Therefore, if these women in Thailand are a lot more willing to have sex with you, it isn't because they like you or are enjoying it, but because there is some pressure on them to do so. You were saying you'll reduce sexual pressure on women by putting pressure on... other women! That's what didn't make sense to me.


I don't think so, necessarily. It's NOT just guys doing things like this, and besides, I highly doubt Thai society pushes Thai women to have sex with foreign men. Actually, it's novelty sex. The same thing happens over here. Male Turkish exchange students typically go home loaded with STD's after a semester in Europe or the U.S. "Study abroad" programs are majority women for a reason.


Here is a recent documentary

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnkoPV_Lrbg[/youtube]

I've been to those islands--back in the 1980s, it was just backpackers/travelers. Not much for the wealthier tourists.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend getting romantically involved with a Thai executive ejaculatory administrator, particularly with those who congregate in places frequented by foreign men with money to burn.

Anyway, Thailand seems more of a destination for Europeans and Australians. Few Americans would be able to find Thailand on a globe, much less care to be able to find it.


Ok, I wasn't denying that it was easy to get sex in Thailand. I just don't think Thai society pressures women to have sex with foreigners, except maybe in the money-making industries. I think it's a genetic thing that women from certain Asian countries think caucasian men are hot and can't control themselves. This is the same phenomena you have with many European/American women and middle eastern men; it's a genetic attraction that is so strong that all the rules and inhibitions simply fly out the windows.

In China, the sex industry is illegal and punishable by death. But the women are still all over you if you visit. So I think it's a genetic/novelty thing. Both men and women love to f**k what they haven't seen much of before.

It all goes to prove that men and women have equal sex drives.



hyperlexian
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23 Feb 2013, 5:44 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
mercifullyfree wrote:
Case in point. On this thread and others, there are guys expressing sexual frustration and claiming women have it oh so easy. On another thread in the L&D, there are guys claiming they're turned off by women "throwing themselves" at them, being "clingy" and how uncomfortable they are with desperate ugly or overweight women's sexual advances. One could lump these men all together and make the sweeping assertion that "Men are hypocritical and full of crap" or just realize that they are different men with different opinions, wants and experiences. I go with the latter.


Sexually frustrated men often blame Feminism, hire executive ejaculatory administrators where legal, etc. etc. Whom do sexually frustrated women blame, and what is their outlet? Do they blame their plight on MRAs? Misogynists? Patriarchs?

themselves.


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