MASSIVE rallies against the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

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The_Face_of_Boo
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08 Jul 2013, 3:45 am

Teq, I would say it's a coupe pushed by the people, the army would have done if it wasn't for the masses. And the army doesn't seem wanting to seize all power to itself for good since it's working toward early elections.

For the Americans who are saying it's a coupe against an democratically-elected President, well, let's say Obama suddenly turned out rigid Christian and started to force extremist Christian rules on all Americans; limiting alcohol, abolishing nightlife, forcing creationism at schools, abolishing evolution from schools, using armed thugs and terrorist groups to threat the opponents, to fight all sorts of arts, declaring for a people Crusade (not just the army) against some country without taking others' opinions, supporting or forcing fundie rulers on States + sucking at economy.

Well, I am sure under such circumstances, millions of Americans, republicans and democrats, would revolt en mass and call the army to arrest him dead or alive.



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08 Jul 2013, 7:57 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Teq, I would say it's a coupe pushed by the people, the army would have done if it wasn't for the masses. And the army doesn't seem wanting to seize all power to itself for good since it's working toward early elections.

For the Americans who are saying it's a coupe against an democratically-elected President, well, let's say Obama suddenly turned out rigid Christian and started to force extremist Christian rules on all Americans; limiting alcohol, abolishing nightlife, forcing creationism at schools, abolishing evolution from schools, using armed thugs and terrorist groups to threat the opponents, to fight all sorts of arts, declaring for a people Crusade (not just the army) against some country without taking others' opinions, supporting or forcing fundie rulers on States + sucking at economy.

Well, I am sure under such circumstances, millions of Americans, republicans and democrats, would revolt en mass and call the army to arrest him dead or alive.


The US constitution would probably prevent any American president from doing such a thing and most US laws have to go through Congress before they are passed, at least as far as I'm aware. However, if the American president started subverting the constitution, then that would be a different story.

Unfortunately, no similar limitation would of applied to Morsi because his government was actually writing Egypt's constitution following the overthrow of Muberack. So, they could of written a constitution which requires Sharia law, turning Egypt into a new Iran if they wanted to.



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09 Jul 2013, 12:49 am

A lot of people are drawing parallels between this and the Algerian Civil War. The military is obviously the real the power in Egypt and I do not see the Muslim Brotherhood or other Islamist groups fading into obscurity, it seems like an unavoidable collision course. I have my doubts Egypt will be able to ever function as a democracy.



zer0netgain
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09 Jul 2013, 7:21 am

Jacoby wrote:
A lot of people are drawing parallels between this and the Algerian Civil War. The military is obviously the real the power in Egypt and I do not see the Muslim Brotherhood or other Islamist groups fading into obscurity, it seems like an unavoidable collision course. I have my doubts Egypt will be able to ever function as a democracy.


No nation functions for long as a democracy. That's why Egypt (and other nations) need a REPUBLIC.



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09 Jul 2013, 9:38 am

Tequila wrote:
And the ravings of the Ikhwan mob in Gaza:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lNOdgoRUJI[/youtube]

Is "Allahu akbar" the only chant they know?


There is also "kill the Jews".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... JZF-Vvv3wg

ruveyn



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09 Jul 2013, 12:16 pm

Lintar wrote:
Why are we hearing so little from the mainstream media about how Libya has turned out?
.


same reason you are hearing very little about Iraq. Its a case of

western coalition: "Uh oh we f****d this up pretty badly, everyone back away as quietly as you can"

*everyone tip toes away from crime scene*


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thomas81
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09 Jul 2013, 12:21 pm

...meanwhile in Syria, the west is backing the FSA who are advocates of Sharia style political Islam.

Thats why its impossible to trust the western axis on anything. On one hand, they criticise theocratic dictatorships that are politically inconvenient to them with their serpents tongue then on the other hand they are backing others purely because they are the enemies of their enemies.

They should listen to Putin and stay the hell out.


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09 Jul 2013, 12:37 pm

thomas81 wrote:
They should listen to Putin and stay the hell out.


Who isn't staying out himself and is helping Iran.

Hypocrisy much?

That said, I think that militarily, getting involved in Syria is insane.

Leave them to their sectarian war.



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09 Jul 2013, 12:46 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
They should listen to Putin and stay the hell out.


Who isn't staying out himself and is helping Iran.

Hypocrisy much?

.


Not really, Iran has been a traditional economic ally and military proxy state of Russia since Soviet times. If the status quo in Iran is threatened it is liable to disrupt the sales of Kalashnikov rifles and MiG jets. The only reason the western leaders would have a bee in their bonnet about the Russian-Iranian relationship is because of their Israeli chums.

I do not see any analogous stake belonging to the USA or the UK in Syria. If Assad is overthrown, Al Quaeda and their brethren ARE going to have more influence in the region. Ultimately that will mean the construction of more madrasses/extremist schools and in the long run more terrorism against American and British interests.

What is interesting is i see on a Al Jazeera report the FSA are referring to the Ba athist government as 'infidels' helping the west 'fight Islam'. At least they're not holding back when they're voicing their real views about the very people who are sponsoring them. The FSA are todays Taliban and look how that relationship ended. Wake up and smell the coffee.


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Jacoby
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09 Jul 2013, 7:55 pm

Russia has it's own interests in Syria. They have a naval base in Tartus, their only one they have in the Mediterranean and have billions of dollars in arms contracts as well as billions in other investments as well with the Assad regime which all go out the window in the event of a rebel victory.



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10 Jul 2013, 2:19 am

thomas81 wrote:
...meanwhile in Syria, the west is backing the FSA who are advocates of Sharia style political Islam.

Thats why its impossible to trust the western axis on anything. On one hand, they criticise theocratic dictatorships that are politically inconvenient to them with their serpents tongue then on the other hand they are backing others purely because they are the enemies of their enemies.

They should listen to Putin and stay the hell out.


Days ago, there had been clashes between FSA and AL Qaeda, leading to 25 casualties.

The basis of the FSA are former soldiers, and not love islamists that much. Their alliance with the Jubhat el Nusra and foreigner islamists is forged by need and hatred against Assad.

I am totally sure (you people should start believe my calculated predictions, I said here long time ago that the next conflict in the MEA is secularism vs Islamism) *if* Assad falls then the FSA and Islamists would shred each other the next day.

However, the Assad's monopolized rule should end otherwise Syria will never rest or progress, at least within a political solution.

As for Putin, he's hypocrite, Hezbollah and Iranian guards are Islamists too.



The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Jul 2013, 4:00 am

thomas, this shows who's really financing Al Qaeda:

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/mi ... -says.html



The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Jul 2013, 7:48 am

Quote:
Last Update: Friday, 12 July 2013 KSA 08:16 - GMT 05:16
What if Mursi was still Egypt’s president?
Friday, 12 July 2013

Bassem Youssef

I’m a fan of watching sci-fi movies particularly those about time travel and parallel universes.
This world or this parallel universe is completely similar to your original world. It has the same characters and same places. But due to certain events or different circumstances, these characters play roles that are different and contradictory to those played in the real world.
There have been many movies that imagine the concepts of a parallel universe. They all depend on the idea of “What if?”

I remembered this concept while following up on last week's events in Egypt. I followed up on discussions over the legitimacy of ousted president Mohammed Mursi and whether what happened was a military coup or a one which was carried out upon the will of the people. Also, whether shutting down religious channels is considered suppression or prevention of strife and thus an attempt to contain violence.

Instead of occupying myself with answering these questions, I asked myself one question: What if?
What if we are living in an alternative reality and parallel universe where the June 30 events failed to oust President Mohamed Mursi? What would such a parallel universe be like?
I cannot answer this question without bringing up the president's last speech on June 26. Yes, that famous speech that lasted for more than two hours and a half. Yes, that speech in which Mursi named and shamed alleged “thugs” in Egypt seeking to wreak havoc.
Apart from the sarcastic material that this speech provided for my show, I considered this speech to be the president's most dangerous one.

Mursi’s code word

We were in front of a president complaining to his enthusiastic audience about several individuals, several TV channels, and people in the media who don't respect his age. He complained and complained and complained.
At a certain moment, the president said the historic Egyptian code word "De Lesseps." But he didn’t say it like late president Gamal Abdel Nasser did, who used it as a code word to launch a military operation to nationalize the Suez Canal. He said it in a different way. He said it in four words that inflamed the audiences' fervour. He said: "A year is enough!"
These words were enough to make the audience go wild. "A year is enough," it's been finally said! This good president will be silent no more! "A year is enough" my dears! You’ve joked about me for a long time, but this is enough! I will forgive no more.
The president's supporters clapped and cheered. Then they began screaming their favorite chants "purge, purge." It's this same chant that was repeated during all of the president's popular conferences – "the people want to purge the media." I now remember the angry faces who in previous conferences requested the president to begin flushing the “puging”. But he would signal with his hand to calm them and say we things like how should be patient with one another and how we should give eachother chances. But this time, "a year is enough" meant there would be no second chances.

You can argue that these speeches only have aims of appeasing the crowds. But hours afterwards, threatening messages were sent out from the ministry of investment, headed by a Brotherhood minister, to private TV channels. They were threatened of being shut down if they continue to criticize the president.

So, the president meant it, "one year is enough."

We now know that there was a list of 21 media figures and politicians, including myself, that were to be targeted and arrested.
So, the president meant it, "one year is enough."

The scene quickly switches to Cairo’s Rabia al-Adawiya Square where pro-Mursi protesters began gathering two days before June 30. It was the surprise that Khaled Abdullah, the famous host of the Islamic Egypt-based Al-Nas channel, warned us of: "You will face a surprise that your minds cannot handle. It's the opposing masses that will terrify those opposing the president. Those opposing the president will find that they have no influence. So, it will end here and they will prove to the people that the people’s will is with the president to make the promise of 'one year is enough.'"

The scene was magnificent in Rabia. Those who took to the podium excited the people with sentences like "You are here today defending God's religion" and "Today, we have come for (the sake of) martyrdom."

Egypt-based Islamic channels Al-Hafez, Al-Nas and Misr 25 adopted purely sectarian rhetoric.
"A year is enough" turned into a plan with a goal, while channels continued to incite people urging them to defend God's religion even if it leads to martyrdom in the fight against the "the enemy," who is us.

Now we can imagine this parallel universe. We can imagine what could have happened if President Mohammed Mursi stayed in his post.

There is no room for weeping over democracy, shutting down inciting religious channels and the drama over whether this was a military coup or not. In this parallel world, the decision to shut down private channels was going to be implemented, political and media figures were going to be arrested and accusations of high treason and plans to change the regime were going to be made against prominent politicians.

Mursi's speech is a result of a long year in which the scene turned from an attempt to co-exist with others into a struggle to survive; a space where one party emerges victorious and the other is defeated.

The president has placed us in clashing paths. Instead of answers which should have been about "you and us," we instead began to question whether it was about "us or them?"
In a perfect world...

You can get angry, revolt and weep over shutting down inciting channels in order to satisfy your conscience. You can argue whether what happened was a political coup or a popular revolution to which the army responded.

But ask yourself, what if this alternative was a parallel universe? Would these religious channels, that adopted insults and hate speech, have defended you?
Yes, in a perfect world, shutting down channels and isolating leaderships is wrong and a violation of freedoms. But, my dear, you were not living in a perfect world. To those who dream of co-existence, how do you co-exist with he who wants to raise arms in your face and with he who considers killing you and imprisoning you or shutting down your media outlet as a victory for Islam?

To the Islamist who is weeping over democracy, you have usurped democracy. You spawned an unjust majority acting with superiority in the name of religion. You requested your president to shut down channels, besiege judicial institutions, torture those opposing your president at the Ittihadiya presidential palace. And you terrified a Coptic engineer who could not utter his name so his religion wouldn’t be figured out. You cheered for insulting the Shiites and did not care that they were killed. And in the end, you were going to overlook shutting down private channels because you would have considered that as a prevention of strife, a victory for Islam, an elimination of corruption and a response to the immortal chant "purge, purge the media."
Therefore, after we finish our debates, remember how the situation will be if we had chosen the alternative truth and the parallel universe.

My dear reader, in the parallel world, you won't read this article because its writer will either be imprisoned or killed. You will switch on your TV to watch Misr 25 broadcasting live footage of the burning studios of private TV channels. The people would be chanting "it's done, the people have purged the media." Protesters would be raising banners that will immortalize the president's famous sentence: "one year is enough."

This article was first published in Egypt-based al-Shorouk on July 9, 2013.



http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/n ... dent-.html



ruveyn
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12 Jul 2013, 7:56 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Days ago, there had been clashes between FSA and AL Qaeda, leading to 25 casualties.



Not nearly enough.



The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Jul 2013, 12:05 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Days ago, there had been clashes between FSA and AL Qaeda, leading to 25 casualties.



Not nearly enough.



That contradicts the western claims that say FSA are Islamists.



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14 Jul 2013, 2:12 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Days ago, there had been clashes between FSA and AL Qaeda, leading to 25 casualties.



Not nearly enough.



That contradicts the western claims that say FSA are Islamists.


Before that it was Al Qaeda in Iraq and Al Qaeda in Syria fighting, and it took a ruling from the top, Al Qeada in Pakistan to stop them.

The Islamists are taking over the supply routes from Turkey, so all supplies go to them. The west said they would only supply the FAS, so they are getting killed. They are targeting the leadership.

So much for the wise Statecraft of the west.

The massive rallies, were less than a quarter million, which is 13 million less than voted for Morsi.

Someone I know went home, just returned, and said the protesters were paid, and the protests staged with fireworks.

His claim is even more people say they would vote for Morsi in the next election, because this is just more of The Army claiming they will make the laws, which Morsi stood up against.

Money from outside, US State Department, USAID, supported the factions that took to the streets. Our laws says we do not support an army taking over, and we will not give them aid, so we sent them four jet fighters.

The will of the majority of voters was overthrown, by a small faction supported and armed from outside.

Islam is a religion, but it is also a culture, and it does not need rules coming from Rome, London, or Washington. Worse, the Saudi, and Quatar.

Egypt is the largest country, 90 million, and they lead the middle east.

What happened was like the Tea Party and the Klan protesting in Washington, and the CIA arresting Obama and Biden, and shutting down the press. They did it with money from the Saudis. For maintaining a stable government, Dick Cheney was put in charge.

Egypts first ever democratic election was overthrown by the army. The same happened in Algeria, it lead to a ten year civil war.

This whole staged show took about a week. Their first act was cutting off the sale of gas, blaming Morsi, so the streets would be open for the crowds. As soon as Morsi was out, lots of gas.

America has overthrown the People of Egypt! 13,250,000 elected this government.