Obamacare

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01 Oct 2013, 12:38 pm

Jacoby wrote:

What's stopping me from waiting until I get sick to purchase health insurance since they cannot discriminate against per-existing conditions and dropping it when I get well? It would be cheaper to pay the fine which they can't collect any way besides without tax returns and doing that than paying for health insurance.

Because you get sick or injured, go to the emergency room, then have no insurance to pay the bill. Policies are not retroactive, for the most part. You cannot predict when you will become ill or injured therefore it's impossible to simply buy the insurance right when it happens.

This kind of thinking bankrupts hospitals and causes medical costs soaring which is why The Affordable Health Care act was created. It will deal with these kinds of issues so hospitals will always have someone to send the bill to who will be able to pay it. It's not Obama trying to control your life. It's addressing real problems in the real world.

sonofghandi
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01 Oct 2013, 12:41 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Because you may not have time to get insurance before the medical bills stack up. If you are in a car accident and rushed to the emergency room, even if your injuries are superficial and you are not admitted, you are going to be responsible for several thousand in medical bills. If it is serious, you could looking at several hundred thousand dollars. Insurance is not going to pay for anything prior to the effective start date of your insurance, which is not going to be the day you call for it.

The government can and will collect the fines. If you have a social security number, you aren't going to get away with not paying anything.

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zer0netgain
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01 Oct 2013, 12:47 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

False.

The ACA does not provide AFFORDABLE health care.

We can thank republicans' for that.

Kindly explain that.

Last I checked, the ACA was passed by a DEMOCRAT controlled House and Senate. The Republicans were in the minority and have managed to enact no changes to the ACA since it was drafted.

We live in a Bizarro world where DEMOCRATS can draft law, pass law, have it prove to be bad law, and somehow spin it into the fault of Republicans and have the masses believe it.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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01 Oct 2013, 12:48 pm

The intelligent thing to do is quit being so stubborn and get insured. It's better for you and it's better for the economy. Why fight it? Why is this such an issue for so many people, most already have insurance anyway.

Another thing that irks me about conservatives is the way they ridicule the part about young adults staying on their parent's policies a bit longer. I just cannot get into the mindset of anyone who criticizes this. Parents have spoken, government has listened, no one needs to be mocked or bullied by conservatives over needing to have a young adult stay on a policy. This way if the kid gets injured or sick, someone will pay the bill. Why is that such a difficult concept for conservatives. Seriously, they need to face reality. It's so frustrating!

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01 Oct 2013, 12:53 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

That's already the reality for people that live without health insurance.

All they can do is intercept your tax return which they already do with student loans, child support, and a number of other things.

sonofghandi
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01 Oct 2013, 12:56 pm

Jacoby wrote:

I'm going to guarantee you that people that choose not to buy health insurance for whatever reason aren't going to be rushing out to fork over $200-300 or however much a month to the insurance companies on January 1st. I would say what the exact rate but government incompetence is one display on healthcare.gov currently and I can't access it. Obamacare does nothing to control cost and will actually cause costs to rise for those that already have insurance. They can fine people until their blue in the face, what are they going to do? They can come and take it if they want. Businesses are cutting hours or much worse to avoid having to pay for the health insurance of their employees, even the unions which are Obama's most loyal supporters are worried about being forced onto these exchanges and losing their more comprehensive coverage. Nancy Pelosi is so selflessly liberating us from the 40 hour work week to follow our dreams! The law is a disaster and I have no fear that people will actually like it, they will know that Obamacare is responsible for their suffering. The lowest costing plans right now are all going to see massive increases in premiums.

I only hope that Obamacare gets delayed, that way 2014 can be a referendum on it. Do you believe the American public really supports it?

Employers with over 50 employees get fined $2000 per employee for not providing health coverage. As for many of the big companies who are putting their employees on a health insurance exchange, most are referring to corporate health insurance exchanges, which have been around for a very long time and exist seperately from the government ones.

The majority of the American public currently supports it, though not by much. This will likely change once the uninformed poor discover that it isn't going to cost them their jobs, isn't going to bankrupt them, isn't going to turn the US into a communist/socialist state, and is going to let them get medical help that they otherwise could not afford. If you are so worried about companies cutting people's hours, why are you bad mouthing the government? Shouldn't you bad mouth the companies that don't even pretend to give a crap instead?

As for increases in premiums of the currently covered, that seems unlikely. The insurance companies are going to have tens of millions of new customers, so how does that translate into increased premiums? I got my estimated rates for next year, and mine will actually drop for the first time ever (only by a few bucks, but I'll take it). As to the costs for premiums on the exchanges, they will vary from state to state and will be mostly influenced by how much effort the individual states put into setting them up and getting insurance companies to sign on. The more insurance providers on the exchange, the cheaper the premiums will be. The more right leaning your state, the worse off you will be under the ACA, just like the Republican party wants it. If they make it difficult and expensive, they think the Obama administration will take the blame (which is already how they are trying to spin this).

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01 Oct 2013, 12:56 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

Vexcalibur wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

False.

The ACA does not provide AFFORDABLE health care.

We can thank republicans' for that.

The Democrats had supermajorities in the House and Senate after 2008, they could pass any bill they wanted and they did. They own Obamacare completely, it is the most partisan piece of legislation in American history.

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01 Oct 2013, 12:58 pm

Jacoby wrote:

This is precisely the reason that the individual mandate was not stripped from the legislation by the Courts. They knew full well that the freeloaders could destroy the insurance industry were it not for the individual mandate.

Refuseniks should be very, very careful what they wish for. If the ACA does not work then there will only be one option left: the single public insurer model. That model already exists, and is working for public servants, military personnel, veterans and the elderly. If the private sector cannot deliver the service, then the public sector can simply expand what already exists.

So any prudent, sensible conservative should be participating in the ACA, in order to ensure no further public sector encroachment--because the genie is never going back in the bottle. The status quo ante is no longer an option.

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01 Oct 2013, 1:01 pm

visagrunt wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

And there it is, the plan all along. Bring it, you can have the single payer debate. That's what the Democrats should of done in 2009. The American public will not accept it and it will lose.

Last edited by Jacoby on 01 Oct 2013, 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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01 Oct 2013, 1:02 pm

Jacoby wrote:

All they can do is intercept your tax return which they already do with student loans, child support, and a number of other things.

The IRS has your social security number whether you pay taxes or not. They get information from every business, employer, court system, educational institution, and financial institution you have ever had contact with. You can get away with not paying some taxes if it is under the table, but you do realize how easily a simple computer program can check every SSN to see if you have either paid your fine or gotten health insurance? The IRS is only collecting the fines because it is actually considered a tax (in legalese terms, anyway).

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Jacoby
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01 Oct 2013, 1:04 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

All they can do is intercept your tax return which they already do with student loans, child support, and a number of other things.

There is no criminal penalty for not paying the fine, it says that right in the law. The IRS can withhold your tax returns and send you nasty letters.

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01 Oct 2013, 1:24 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

Last I checked, the ACA was passed by a DEMOCRAT controlled House and Senate. The Republicans were in the minority and have managed to enact no changes to the ACA since it was drafted.

We live in a Bizarro world where DEMOCRATS can draft law, pass law, have it prove to be bad law, and somehow spin it into the fault of Republicans and have the masses believe it.

There were plenty of concessions made in the drafting of the ACA. One of the big ones was allowing the states to individually set up the health insurance exchanges (state's rights). And now red states are deciding they want no part of it and have called in the federal government to do it for them. I imagine they will be calling it big government intrusion come campaign time.

I've been through the ACA backwards and forwards. I have to admit that there are many weaknesses in it, but most stem from the fact that it gives individual states too much leeway for it to be very effective in Republican controlled states. The ACA has some great things going for it, no matter how you look at it:
Preventive medicine is no longer something an insurance company can consider optional.
Your insurance can't be cancelled because you have started having serious health problems.
Tens of millions of people will be able to afford health insurance who could not before.
Everyone will have access to medical care.
It saves serious cash for prescriptions (especially seniors).

One thing that I think will come out of this: people will no longer be forced to stay in a crappy job with no advancement prospects for the sole purpose of covering their family's health. Now, at least, there will be some possible options.

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Last edited by sonofghandi on 01 Oct 2013, 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sonofghandi
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01 Oct 2013, 1:28 pm

Jacoby wrote:

There is no criminal penalty for not paying the fine, it says that right in the law. The IRS can withhold your tax returns and send you nasty letters.

That is correct. There is no criminal penalty. It is a tax. I have been calling it a fine, because that is what everyone seems to be familiar with calling it.

The IRS will withhold your tax returns. They will also begin assessing fines and interest on those fines for failure to pay, and it will be governed by the current regulations regarding all other unpaid federal taxes, whether you file a return or not.

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Jacoby
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01 Oct 2013, 1:35 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

There is no criminal penalty for not paying the fine, it says that right in the law. The IRS can withhold your tax returns and send you nasty letters.

Meaning what? That they will throw you in jail? Is this your interpretation?

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01 Oct 2013, 1:38 pm

If Mcdonald's can provide insurance for their employees, so can any other franchise. Just use the Mcdonald's model and it's done.

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01 Oct 2013, 1:39 pm

Quote:

WWII Vets Knock Over Shutdown Barrier to Visit Memorial

A group of World War II veterans in an Honor Flight group Tuesday knocked over barriers imposed during the government shutdown at the WWII Memorial in Washington, D.C., to get inside.

As part of the federal government shutdown, national parks are closed. But the group of veterans continued to the monument Tuesday, as reported by Stars and Stripes reporter Leo Shane:

Honor flight vets just knocked over the barriers at the WWII memorial to get inside, #shutdown or no. pic.twitter.com/T4bx8kvFYj

— Leo Shane III (@LeoShane) October 1, 2013

No sign of folks leaving. The vets have control of the memorial. #shutdown pic.twitter.com/eGj4kmFEiP

— Leo Shane III (@LeoShane) October 1, 2013

Credit where due — I watched Rep Steve King distract a park police officer while vets and staffers knocked down the fences here. #shutdown

— Leo Shane III (@LeoShane) October 1, 2013

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WWII Vets Knock Over Shutdown Barrier to Visit Memorial
Follow @FreeBeacon
Leo Shane III

Leo Shane III

BY: Washington Free Beacon Staff
October 1, 2013 11:55 am

A group of World War II veterans in an Honor Flight group Tuesday knocked over barriers imposed during the government shutdown at the WWII Memorial in Washington, D.C., to get inside.

As part of the federal government shutdown, national parks are closed. But the group of veterans continued to the monument Tuesday, as reported by Stars and Stripes reporter Leo Shane:

Honor flight vets just knocked over the barriers at the WWII memorial to get inside, #shutdown or no. pic.twitter.com/T4bx8kvFYj

— Leo Shane III (@LeoShane) October 1, 2013

No sign of folks leaving. The vets have control of the memorial. #shutdown pic.twitter.com/eGj4kmFEiP

— Leo Shane III (@LeoShane) October 1, 2013

Credit where due — I watched Rep Steve King distract a park police officer while vets and staffers knocked down the fences here. #shutdown

— Leo Shane III (@LeoShane) October 1, 2013

Update: WFB staff writer Lachlan Markay arrived at the WWII Memorial, where a second group of Iowa vets (in yellow shirts) have also arrived at the memorial. Park police are letting all vets through, according to Shane.

“We’re looking about how to deal with this in the future,” Park Police spokeswoman Carol Johnson said Tuesday.

Made it down to the WW2 memorial. Looks like vets are being allowed to walk down freely. pic.twitter.com/AMncX5jZff

— Lachlan Markay (@lachlan) October 1, 2013

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