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Libertarians are winning

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Dox47
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31 Mar 2014, 5:43 pm

Yeah, with Inuyasha gone, I think the only people on this board who pay any attention to FOX are liberals, at least judging by who quotes it and comments on it.


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thomas81
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31 Mar 2014, 6:15 pm

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Stannis
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31 Mar 2014, 6:18 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Yeah, with Inuyasha gone, I think the only people on this board who pay any attention to FOX are liberals, at least judging by who quotes it and comments on it.


RIght. The real right wing are paragons of virtue like you who wouldn't dream of adopting platitudes from Fox, Limbaugh, and Alex Jones :roll:



The_Walrus
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31 Mar 2014, 6:20 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
luanqibazao wrote:
Consider this: over the last century, people "enamored of" Karl Marx have been responsible for millions upon millions of deaths; admirers of Ayn Rand have invented Wikipedia. Yet someone who comes to a forum such as this openly calling himself a Marxist won't garner anything like the emotional response inspired by the mere mention of Rand's name. Any impartial observer is going to wonder what all the fuss is about.

I am not a Marxist, but that's a pretty one eyed way of looking at it, even by the standards of this forum's conservatives*. Totally disregard the huge volume of evils done by the right wing, and totally disregard anything good done by the far left.


You're changing the subject. I do not refer to whatever you might judge "left wing" or "right wing," but to admirers of Karl Marx, specifically, and admirers of Ayn Rand, specifically. The terms are not synonymous.

So essentially you say Rand's values aren't bad because she hasn't been as influential as Marx, rather than because her values are actually any better?



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31 Mar 2014, 6:25 pm

Stannis wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Yeah, with Inuyasha gone, I think the only people on this board who pay any attention to FOX are liberals, at least judging by who quotes it and comments on it.


RIght. The real right wing are paragons of virtue like you who wouldn't dream of adopting platitudes from Fox, Limbaugh, and Alex Jones :roll:


1. Dox is a libertarian, not a right winger, and has stated that several times.
2. I, as a right winger, have gotten little to nothing from Fox, Limbaugh, and I'd have to Google Alex Jones to see who he is. I arrived at my political standing on my own and don't need to be preached to by Limbaugh or anybody.


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Dox47
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31 Mar 2014, 6:31 pm

Stannis wrote:
RIght. The real right wing are paragons of virtue like you who wouldn't dream of adopting platitudes from Fox, Limbaugh, and Alex Jones :roll:


Perhaps you should assess your target before taking shots, might keep you from making an ass of yourself sometime.


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The_Walrus
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31 Mar 2014, 6:45 pm

Raptor wrote:
Stannis wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Yeah, with Inuyasha gone, I think the only people on this board who pay any attention to FOX are liberals, at least judging by who quotes it and comments on it.


RIght. The real right wing are paragons of virtue like you who wouldn't dream of adopting platitudes from Fox, Limbaugh, and Alex Jones :roll:


1. Dox is a libertarian, not a right winger, and has stated that several times.

Libertarians can be right wing. Dox's own score on the political compass places him to the right of you.

So it depends on which definition of right wing we are using.
I know a fervent anti-capitalist who insists that he can't be left wing because he's very socially liberal, he just rejects the idea that he is anything other than a centrist. I don't think there's really much point arguing semantics like whether anyone who argues for small government is right wing.



luanqibazao
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31 Mar 2014, 6:50 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
So essentially you say Rand's values aren't bad because she hasn't been as influential as Marx, rather than because her values are actually any better?


If you actually missed my point, I don't think I can make it any more clearly.
If you're just trying to drag me down a side alley, no thanks.



Stannis
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31 Mar 2014, 6:57 pm

Raptor wrote:
Stannis wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Yeah, with Inuyasha gone, I think the only people on this board who pay any attention to FOX are liberals, at least judging by who quotes it and comments on it.


RIght. The real right wing are paragons of virtue like you who wouldn't dream of adopting platitudes from Fox, Limbaugh, and Alex Jones :roll:


1. Dox is a libertarian, not a right winger, and has stated that several times.
2. I, as a right winger, have gotten little to nothing from Fox, Limbaugh, and I'd have to Google Alex Jones to see who he is. I arrived at my political standing on my own and don't need to be preached to by Limbaugh or anybody.


How can we react to problems in the right way, if we have not conducted research into how and why problems arise? Our political affiliations inform reactions to problems, and if we trust our political affiliation, we may find ourselves championing actions which are ideological, and consequently less than ideal. It strikes me as illegitimate when a person has strong political opinions, yet has no interest in learning why things happen.



Last edited by Stannis on 31 Mar 2014, 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Walrus
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31 Mar 2014, 7:11 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
So essentially you say Rand's values aren't bad because she hasn't been as influential as Marx, rather than because her values are actually any better?


If you actually missed my point, I don't think I can make it any more clearly.
If you're just trying to drag me down a side alley, no thanks.

Your point was that admirers of Rand haven't killed as many people as admirers of Marx, so people should be less shocked when someone claims to agree with Rand than if they claim to admire Marx.

I suggested that people who would agree with Rand have killed more people than admirers of Marx. You said they didn't count, because they weren't, strictly speaking, admirers of this fairly obscure author.

Personally, I think that's a silly distinction to make. If I find some random obscure blogger who advocates systematic killing of anyone whose bank balance ends with an even number and claim to be a follower of them, and I somehow more moral than a follower of Rand because my blogger has killed fewer people than Ronald Reagan? Does that remain if millions of people who haven't heard of this blogger then start massacring people who have a bank balance that ends in an even number?



Stannis
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31 Mar 2014, 7:13 pm

Raptor wrote:
Stannis wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Yeah, with Inuyasha gone, I think the only people on this board who pay any attention to FOX are liberals, at least judging by who quotes it and comments on it.


RIght. The real right wing are paragons of virtue like you who wouldn't dream of adopting platitudes from Fox, Limbaugh, and Alex Jones :roll:


1. Dox is a libertarian, not a right winger, and has stated that several times.


They're not mutually exclusive.



Last edited by Stannis on 31 Mar 2014, 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dox47
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31 Mar 2014, 7:14 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
So it depends on which definition of right wing we are using.


That's the crux of it, and one of the reasons I personally dislike political labeling and treat is as a necessary evil. Here in the US, when someone is called a 'right winger' it's usually due to their social conservatism, which even a quick perusal of my posting history would show is very far removed from my positions. I tend to score rightward on political compass tests based solely on my views regarding the size of the government, which are admittedly quite strong, and not on any of the other traits generally lumped together as 'right wing' or 'conservative'; my social views are positively progressive, I even support a guaranteed minimum income for f*ck's sake.


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Dox47
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31 Mar 2014, 7:18 pm

Stannis wrote:
They're not mutually exclusive.


Maybe not, but no one with even a passing familiarity with me would describe me as such, so you appear to be operating off of assumption, which is never a good idea.


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The_Walrus
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31 Mar 2014, 7:22 pm

Stannis wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
luanqibazao wrote:
Consider this: over the last century, people "enamored of" Karl Marx have been responsible for millions upon millions of deaths; admirers of Ayn Rand have invented Wikipedia. Yet someone who comes to a forum such as this openly calling himself a Marxist won't garner anything like the emotional response inspired by the mere mention of Rand's name. Any impartial observer is going to wonder what all the fuss is about.

I am not a Marxist, but that's a pretty one eyed way of looking at it, even by the standards of this forum's conservatives*. Totally disregard the huge volume of evils done by the right wing, and totally disregard anything good done by the far left.

*and in case you think that's me being one eyed, some of this forum's left wingers can be even more one-eyed.


Interesting observation. Can anyone describe some positive things which have been done by the modern U.S right wing?

Apologies if I have misunderstood your definition of "modern" or "positive" or "right wing", but President George W. Bush increased the federal science budget, did a lot to fight AIDS in Africa, and signed Medicare Part D.

That doesn't seem to address my point though. There are some far left wingers on this forum who just don't recognise that their ideas are totally unrealistic. I do not feel comfortable naming names, but stick around long enough and you'll meet them.



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31 Mar 2014, 7:28 pm

BraveMurderDay wrote:
Why don't libertarians just move to a different country if they don't like it here? If you don't like your taxes helping the importunate you can just leave - less of a tall order for you than the sick millions who die in the corn fields and gutters thanks to freedom.


You do know that most of your taxes go to buying bombs and bullets yes? You have literally done more with your money to kill children in the middle east than you have anything good for people here.

Why is that people are so stupid they cant understand this? Our military budget for one year is enough to outright buy a house for every homeless person in the country and feed them for the rest of their life. One years military budget is enough to close every coal fired plant in the country and replace them with alternative power. Its enough to clean up all of the super fund sites across the country. It is enough to pay for everyone medical bills. And every year, the government buys bombs and bullets instead. And yet you idiots keep thinking that you are paying taxes to actually help people.

We have paid enough in taxes to fix every social issue 100X over and it has never happened. You ignorant tools actually believe that there isnt enough money to solve problems such as the power grid. Yes, we just nee to pay a LITTLE BIT more in taxes and everything will fine! People are so dreadfully stupid.



The_Walrus
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31 Mar 2014, 7:33 pm

It is possible to be anti-military and left wing... in fact, being anti-military has probably been the defining attribute of many left wing organisations. Left wingers who are anti-military (such as myself) just don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Cut defence spending whilst continuing to fix other issues.