25 Percent Of Americans Open To Secession

Post Reply New Topic

I can see why states don't want to be a part of this.....nation, the federal government sucks and quite honestly no one should support it.

But the people who are most eager to secede are an illiberal bunch who don't want their taxes going to the social safety net - they don't want to pay taxes - who generally don't like civil rights legislation, and who want to close the borders to immigration both legal and illegal. Not the sort of people I'd favor over the current government.

Yeah I know, because yeah once the government was hypothetically gotten rid of then there would still be those trolls you describe...what to do about them would then be the thing people would have to figure out...

Don't you mean hammock?


No one in thier right mind wants to pay taxes. Taxes are a necessary evil needed to run the government. The difference between conservatives and liberals on taxes is how those tax revenues are spent.


You mean some of them are selective about what civil rights they support, sort of like some liberals.......


Who wants to close the country to legal immigration?


Change might just be coming, like it or not.

No, I don't mean hammock. Calling the safety net a hammock of just a means of convincing other resentful people to get rid of it entirely by implying the needy are just lazy.
In regard to taxes, the things the right doesn't want their taxes spent on is caring for the needy, the elderly, and the disabled - see reference above.^
How are liberals selective about civil rights? By being intolerant of the intolerant?
And yes, I have heard of conservatives who are completely natavistic, and who want borders closed to both legal and illegal immigration. And you know what happens to the children of illegals? The grow up to be Americans. I suspect if the undocumented immigration was coming from Canada, we wouldn't be hearing nearly as much outrage about border crossings. I suspect this has more to do with the "browning of America."

? The hammock: It is what it is and was never meant to be a hammock. Lazy is able-bodied people that won?t work even in the best of economic times under some excuse or another.

? Taxes: See what I wrote about the hammock

? Civil rights except gun rights which are still civil rights, just not the ones you like. I?d be a lot less critical of all the screeching about civil rights if so many of the civil rights activists weren't anti-gun.

? Borders: Let me tell you the big difference between the average Mexican and Canadian: MONEY! Canadians come to the states they bring dinero and spend it here. Some Canadians own winter homes in the sun belt and pay taxes on them. Our jails aren't full of Canadians, either. When Americans go to Canada we take dinero with us and spend it. Some Americans own property for hunting and fishing in Canada and pay taxes on it. Canadian jails aren't full of Americans. There are mutual benefits to Americans and Canadians visiting each other's countries.
WTF does the average Mexican bring to the US? Well, it?s not what the Canadians bring, I can tell you that much.
If Mexico sucks so bad and there?s such and income disparity between them and the US that?s Mexico?s problem to sort out, not ours.
It speaks volumes when so many Mexican Americans are against illegal immigration from Mexico and many of them work for INS and the Border Patrol.

I agree with having taxes, but can't say i am in my right mind...and not in a position to pay them aside from sales tax some items have. I also think it has to be reasonable tax rates, and the government should be more responsible with the tax revenue(like that's going to happen any time soon). Of course change is coming I imagine most people wont 'like' it, do most people like chaos and violence and government oppression, militarized police ect cause that is probably what's coming more or less.

And lol at the social safety network being a hammock, to me the term implies living with ease in leasure and being on SSI and food stamps(though not even enough for one sad little load of groceries) and having 400 dollars left over a month after paying rent while suffering mental problems but unable to get effective/helpful treatment because medicaid only covers so much is nothing like laying in a hammock to me.....most people who aren't working or aren't able to make enough to sustain them self aren't in that position by choice, the ones that are are just taking away resources from people who need it but I feel the fraud thing gets overblown to the extent people assume anyone on welfare is some lazy bum that could just get up and get a job or a better job when that usually is not the case. Stigma really pisses me off, if they cut the social safety network I am screwed already am screwed since the whole system is liable to collapse anyways not going to lay down and die or anything but doubt I'd last too terribly long in the chaos...what's it matter anymore I guess.

Believe what you want, but the rest of us will always be here to stick up for the needy and the shunned.
So there.

Not much of a rebuttal, considering.....
And it's not about whether or not to help the needy and the shunned but how to go about doing it effectively.

Pretty sure cutting all welfare and putting people in even worse more desperate situations and making it so its not at all the governments responsibility to attempt to ensure these people have access to the means to survive and even thrive...and putting sole responsibility of handling poverty upon charity while otherwise ignoring the issue as far as government policy is concerned just so tax money doesn't go to helping people does not seem like an effective way to help the needy and shunned.

If government is a necessary evil it should at least be held to the standards of having the purpose of serving the people not the very wealthy lobbyists who represent corporate interests, while ensuring there are people stuck in the gutter so to speak and even setting up policies to further kick people while they are down like not providing public restrooms in areas with large homeless populations and charging people caught peeing/pooping outside with a sex offense for life.

I don't think I could give a better answer than Sweatleaf.

And there lies possibly the greatest disparity between conservative and liberal: Role of government.

Her answer was predictable.
It also doesn't address my reply to you concerning illegal immigration.

While it's absolutely true that a country has every right to control it's borders, it's also true that the children of illegals become Americans. My parents' best man had been a marine who had been maimed in combat serving his country, and guess what, his father had come to America illegally from Bohemia (the Czech Republic) between the two World Wars - and they were hardly bringing money into the economy when he and his family first arived. And as I have already stated, the nativist movement today is more interested in the color of the illegals - a racial component is undeniable. On top of that, the kids who are the right's favorite target are fleeing from violence - as Americans (and according to the right who insist we are a Christian) we can choose to put mercy ahead of fear of the other allegedly invading our borders. The right has already lost the argument for coming up with ridiculous charges of illegals bringing Ebola, or terrorism across the border.
If that doesn't satisfy you, well, that's all your getting from me.

/\

More charges of racism. Do you actually know any mainstream conservatives?
And as far as border security goes, do you and other "open-border" liberals leave the outside doors of you homes open or at least unlocked all the time?

I know plenty of mainstream conservatives, and I know how their voices are drowned out by the radical right minority because the conservative leadership fear the latter - minority though they be.
And no, I don't leave my doors unlocked, and I don't support open borders. I just don't think our immigration policy should be guided by people's baser instincts, and that we can afford to drop the legalism to show kindness to fearful children where kindness is called for.