Douchebags - An article everyone should read :)

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Kraichgauer
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09 Nov 2014, 12:31 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm commenting a little late here, as the conversation seems to be drifting away from the article, but I for one - -

GIVE IT MY STAMP OF APPROVAL!

I hadn't thought of it before, but yes, the word douchebag best describes overbearing 1%'s and those who want to be them. While I don't exactly agree that Bruce Wayne is a dbag, I think the author is spot on that Tony Stark is, while Peter Parker, Clark Kent, and Captain America are not.
Funny thing is, with the description of the hipster as artsy, over educated, and under employed, I thought, "Hm, sounds very familiar." :lol: Not that I make any such claims on that identity myself, as hipsters have too many social rules to follow, I much preferred the label of bohemian.


But I thought the whole point was not to have a strict set of social rules to follow and dislike of modern mainstream 'culture'....not that I know anything about such topics.


That's the point - many hipster types are posers only trying to appear counter cultural, and so only listen to particular types of music, watch particular types of movies, wear a particular type of clothing (more likely from Urban Outfitters than from Value Village). Not that there isn't the real thing among hipster, though.


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09 Nov 2014, 10:50 am

[url=http://i.imgur.com/VO98jgd.jpg] white priviledge is a joke idea for priviledged white elites to judge other priviledged white elites. its a waste of time as a concept see how this poster BTFO someone promoting it./url]



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09 Nov 2014, 12:21 pm

dimwit79 wrote:
got a little tiring when it started talking about white privilege. I'm sorry, but white privilege only exists in the places it's meant to, right in the middle of white dominated cultures. Our place in the world basically. Im sorry but thats just a reality of existence. English speaking whites dominate english speaking white cultures. Everyone needs their place in the world where their ethnic group comes first and gets special treatment, and equality comes from the fact that we all have something like that, all of us, providing we werent silly enough to move to some other cultures special place in the world.

The reason why white insults dont work is because he's using them smack in the middle of a white country. The whole country is at their back and it makes the insult meaningless.

Call someone something to do with being white when you're right in the middle of a non white country and the effect is completely different. There's menace to the word gringo when you're in the middle of mexico. Call a white a gaijin when he's in japan and the word hurts.

Then try and stand in mexico or japan and call either a mexican or a japanese person some name connected with their ethnicity. It falls completely flat.

The power of words change as your location changes. And that's the simple reason why white insults dont work on american soil but can be just as offensive when you're in a different country and you really are the outsider and considered inferior because you're not one of the locals.

It's the same as how you can get laughed at when you're in the company of a load of rednecks for saying something intelligent, but then you're in the company of intelligent types and theres a lone redneck getting insulted and the red neck is the one that stands out.


Ok well then how is it I am an american citizen with white skin(there is the part native bit but people don't nessisarily know that) and I have been offended by insults about my 'race'? If insults towards white people do not work on american soil? No when I got called 'white trash' at one point as a teen it made me feel like crap...so it is not true such insults do not work on american soil. Also in many parts of the U.S there are more people of minorities than white people, of course they don't over-all dominate the 'culture' though I wouldn't say the U.S even has much culture anyways, but for instance even where i live it is not mostly 'white'. Insulting a minority for their race would be offensive, and insulting someone white for their race wold be insulting I actually saw downtown some black male shouting all kinds of racist stuff at white passer-bys so much so other black people near the bus stop told him to shut up and quit being racist. Now if you go to some upper class area as a minority and try to insult someone for being white then yeah, not going to really be effective.

Also though technically speaking america was the place of native americans being dominant...europeans came here and screwed it up, so is it really fair to call the U.S a 'special place' for whites to be the 'dominant culture'? Also though I do not think everyone needs a place where their race/ethnicity gets preferential treatment wouldn't that just encourage things like racism, unfair treatment of minorities, in places where unfair treatment for minorities exists it certainly should be changed.


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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 09 Nov 2014, 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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09 Nov 2014, 1:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm commenting a little late here, as the conversation seems to be drifting away from the article, but I for one - -

GIVE IT MY STAMP OF APPROVAL!

I hadn't thought of it before, but yes, the word douchebag best describes overbearing 1%'s and those who want to be them. While I don't exactly agree that Bruce Wayne is a dbag, I think the author is spot on that Tony Stark is, while Peter Parker, Clark Kent, and Captain America are not.
Funny thing is, with the description of the hipster as artsy, over educated, and under employed, I thought, "Hm, sounds very familiar." :lol: Not that I make any such claims on that identity myself, as hipsters have too many social rules to follow, I much preferred the label of bohemian.


But I thought the whole point was not to have a strict set of social rules to follow and dislike of modern mainstream 'culture'....not that I know anything about such topics.


That's the point - many hipster types are posers only trying to appear counter cultural, and so only listen to particular types of music, watch particular types of movies, wear a particular type of clothing (more likely from Urban Outfitters than from Value Village). Not that there isn't the real thing among hipster, though.


I had my friend refer to me as one......lol, guess its my combination of thrift store clothes and skinny jeans usually with some kind of pattern (never have found any that fit at a thrift store). Then of course that I listen to vinyls/cassette tapes, the collection of those is growing, listen to music that the majority of people have no idea exists and apparently hats I like to wear....maybe there where a couple other things, but can't remember. Though the only thing I have referred to myself as as far as any subculture/social group or whatever would be a metalhead since I am pretty obsessed with metal.


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09 Nov 2014, 4:30 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm commenting a little late here, as the conversation seems to be drifting away from the article, but I for one - -

GIVE IT MY STAMP OF APPROVAL!

I hadn't thought of it before, but yes, the word douchebag best describes overbearing 1%'s and those who want to be them. While I don't exactly agree that Bruce Wayne is a dbag, I think the author is spot on that Tony Stark is, while Peter Parker, Clark Kent, and Captain America are not.
Funny thing is, with the description of the hipster as artsy, over educated, and under employed, I thought, "Hm, sounds very familiar." :lol: Not that I make any such claims on that identity myself, as hipsters have too many social rules to follow, I much preferred the label of bohemian.


But I thought the whole point was not to have a strict set of social rules to follow and dislike of modern mainstream 'culture'....not that I know anything about such topics.


That's the point - many hipster types are posers only trying to appear counter cultural, and so only listen to particular types of music, watch particular types of movies, wear a particular type of clothing (more likely from Urban Outfitters than from Value Village). Not that there isn't the real thing among hipster, though.


I had my friend refer to me as one......lol, guess its my combination of thrift store clothes and skinny jeans usually with some kind of pattern (never have found any that fit at a thrift store). Then of course that I listen to vinyls/cassette tapes, the collection of those is growing, listen to music that the majority of people have no idea exists and apparently hats I like to wear....maybe there where a couple other things, but can't remember. Though the only thing I have referred to myself as as far as any subculture/social group or whatever would be a metalhead since I am pretty obsessed with metal.


It sounds like you're the real thing, rather than someone trying to pose as poor and counter cultural just because it's a fad. My wife and I often stand out like sore thumbs due to our politics, that we buy clothes at second hand stores like Value Village, and our somewhat eccentric interest in music or movies - though part of that is just my Aspie weirdness that has rubbed off on my wife. :lol:


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09 Nov 2014, 5:25 pm

"White privilege is the right of whites, and only whites, to be judged as individuals, to be treated as a unique self, possessed of all the rights and protections of citizenship. (quoted from the article). I could not help but re-read that sentence, replacing "white" with "neurotypical"... both groups extend to themselves a self-respect that they deny others. I am white, so I'm not exempt from that part of it.



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10 Nov 2014, 12:19 pm

B19 wrote:
"White privilege is the right of whites, and only whites, to be judged as individuals, to be treated as a unique self, possessed of all the rights and protections of citizenship. (quoted from the article). I could not help but re-read that sentence, replacing "white" with "neurotypical"... both groups extend to themselves a self-respect that they deny others. I am white, so I'm not exempt from that part of it.


See I read the sentence as being logically inconsistent. How can you categorise an entire demographic as unique?

Of course he shifts from "whites" to "white men" a paragraph later, demonstrating further inconsistency, as well as the sexism inherent in his ideology.

Quote:
But white men are just people. Normal. Basic Humanity. We carry the absent mark which grants us the invisible power of white privilege. Everyone else gets some form of discrimination.


White privilege: The notion that it's okay to judge people based on their ethnicity, as long as they're white.

Every individual, no matter their genetic background, has advantages and disadvantages. Picking out white men for denigration in no way levels the playing field, and constitutes a brand new form of bigotry. If you wish for equality, fight for equality instead of scapegoating based on gender and ethnicity. If you wish to help the underprivileged, spend some time feeding the poor and homeless. If you wish to promote segregation, intolerance and bigotry, practice the politics of division.

Seriously, at this point the notion of white privilege comes across as a decades late counter-movement to white supremacy. More redundant yet, it further comes across as a centuries late apology for crimes that nobody alive today is responsible for.

Oh, and before anyone tries to tell me that I don't understand, that I'm missing the point or that I'm somehow blinded by my "privilege", I pre-emptively call ad hominem.



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10 Nov 2014, 1:53 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVJC0LJTYZc[/youtube]


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10 Nov 2014, 2:15 pm

adifferentname wrote:
Oh, and before anyone tries to tell me that I don't understand, that I'm missing the point or that I'm somehow blinded by my "privilege", I pre-emptively call ad hominem.

Wtf. Pointing out that you're wrong (in a general sense) isn't an ad hominem!
adifferentname wrote:
White privilege: The notion that it's okay to judge people based on their ethnicity, as long as they're white.

Every individual, no matter their genetic background, has advantages and disadvantages. Picking out white men for denigration in no way levels the playing field, and constitutes a brand new form of bigotry. If you wish for equality, fight for equality instead of scapegoating based on gender and ethnicity. If you wish to help the underprivileged, spend some time feeding the poor and homeless. If you wish to promote segregation, intolerance and bigotry, practice the politics of division.

I agree with you that scapegoating white men is a bad idea, but I don't think the author does it. In fact, he specifically speaks out against it and instead criticises "douchebags", a category which includes non-men and non-whites. Anne Coulter is a douchebag. Kanye West is a douchebag.



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10 Nov 2014, 4:44 pm

adifferentname wrote:
B19 wrote:
"White privilege is the right of whites, and only whites, to be judged as individuals, to be treated as a unique self, possessed of all the rights and protections of citizenship. (quoted from the article). I could not help but re-read that sentence, replacing "white" with "neurotypical"... both groups extend to themselves a self-respect that they deny others. I am white, so I'm not exempt from that part of it.


See I read the sentence as being logically inconsistent. How can you categorise an entire demographic as unique?

Of course he shifts from "whites" to "white men" a paragraph later, demonstrating further inconsistency, as well as the sexism inherent in his ideology.

Quote:
But white men are just people. Normal. Basic Humanity. We carry the absent mark which grants us the invisible power of white privilege. Everyone else gets some form of discrimination.


White privilege: The notion that it's okay to judge people based on their ethnicity, as long as they're white.

Every individual, no matter their genetic background, has advantages and disadvantages. Picking out white men for denigration in no way levels the playing field, and constitutes a brand new form of bigotry. If you wish for equality, fight for equality instead of scapegoating based on gender and ethnicity. If you wish to help the underprivileged, spend some time feeding the poor and homeless. If you wish to promote segregation, intolerance and bigotry, practice the politics of division.

Seriously, at this point the notion of white privilege comes across as a decades late counter-movement to white supremacy. More redundant yet, it further comes across as a centuries late apology for crimes that nobody alive today is responsible for.

Oh, and before anyone tries to tell me that I don't understand, that I'm missing the point or that I'm somehow blinded by my "privilege", I pre-emptively call ad hominem.


Sure, speaking out against prejudice or helping the underprivileged is one thing, but sometimes it also takes pointing out those who are responsible for those problems when trying to solve them. In that case, it's important to call out Donald Trump and Bill O'Reiley for their douchebaggery.


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10 Nov 2014, 5:57 pm

Hmm.... one thing I've learned from this thread--the phrase 'white privilege' has become what Lifton calls a "thought-terminating cliché" for people on the right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Re ... f_Totalism


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10 Nov 2014, 6:43 pm

adifferentname wrote:
B19 wrote:
"White privilege is the right of whites, and only whites, to be judged as individuals, to be treated as a unique self, possessed of all the rights and protections of citizenship. (quoted from the article). I could not help but re-read that sentence, replacing "white" with "neurotypical"... both groups extend to themselves a self-respect that they deny others. I am white, so I'm not exempt from that part of it.


See I read the sentence as being logically inconsistent. How can you categorise an entire demographic as unique?


-The author misses out that their are "white slurs" among the different white groups because of perceived differences.
-The United States government divides Hispanic white people from European white people in their racial statistics. Thus, people from Spain are separated from people from Portugal. People from Spain are "Hispanic white", and people from Portugal are "European white".
-In the United States, some white people are called "rednecks", or "white trash" because of class differences.

The author needs to explain how all these people are seen as "unique individuals" when they are categorized into groups the same as minorities.



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10 Nov 2014, 7:06 pm

BTW, gawker is a very unethical and outright toxic and harmful company that shouldn't be supported. :)



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11 Nov 2014, 6:46 am

LoveNotHate wrote:

-The author misses out that their are "white slurs" among the different white groups because of perceived differences.

No he doesn't. This is how the article starts.



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11 Nov 2014, 6:56 am

The_Walrus wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:

-The author misses out that their are "white slurs" among the different white groups because of perceived differences.

No he doesn't. This is how the article starts.


He says they don't exist. This is how he comes to the conclusion that white people are not categorized into groups, and are actually seen as "individuals". If he acknowledges this, then he would have to admit that white people are categorized. Assuming I understand his vague logic to why categorization deprives someone of their individuality.

Somehow he argues that calling a black man - a black man - categorizes someone and deprives this person of their individuality. Perhaps someone can explain how categorization takes away a person's individuality?

In the United States, we classify northern Africans as "white". However, it is not uncommon to hear people express their disdain for "Arabs" .. ".... " ... and such slurs against these white people. This would upset his logic, because it is a clear categorization of white people.



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11 Nov 2014, 7:54 am

LoveNotHate wrote:

He says they don't exist.

No he doesn't.

Quote:
We can usually get to ?Hillbilly? or ?Trailer Trash? or ?White Trash,? possibly even ?Peckerwood,? before folks recognize the ?Cletus the slack-jawed yokel? pattern of class discrimination here. And being that we are at a top ranked west coast university, not only do we all share basic middle class aspirations, but we can feel pretty safe in the fact that there are no ?Red Necks? here to insult.
...

Hispanic students find their way to ?Gringo,? just as a student perhaps from Atlanta or Houston offers ?Yankee.? Still other students give their own regional variant insult for white imperialists and tourists ? such as ?Haole.? From this we learn that race is defined by place, and that where you are white matters.

It continues in this fashion for a while.

Quote:
This is how he comes to the conclusion that white people are not categorized into groups, and are actually seen as "individuals". If he acknowledges this, then he would have to admit that white people are categorized. Assuming I understand his vague logic to why categorization deprives someone of their individuality.

Somehow he argues that calling a black man - a black man - categorizes someone and deprives this person of their individuality. Perhaps someone can explain how categorization takes away a person's individuality?

This is the part of the article I think I struggled most with.

I think his point relates to the effectiveness of calling a successful, educated, upper-middle class black man by some of the more popular racial slurs versus calling a white man "honky" or "cracker", which do nothing.

I don't think he's arguing that it's wrong to call a black man black. It seems to me he's saying that being black makes you vulnerable to anti-black sentiment in a way that being white doesn't make you vulnerable to anti-white sentiment.

Quote:
In the United States, we classify northern Africans as "white". However, it is not uncommon to hear people express their disdain for "Arabs" .. ".... " ... and such slurs against these white people. This would upset his logic, because it is a clear categorization of white people.

Clearly the problem is that the government's definition of whiteness, seemingly based on ancestry, is not consistent with public perception. Many Arabs have been campaigning against this and asking for their ethnicity to be recognised on official forms.

Racists rarely ask for a sample of your DNA, they judge based on skin colour and facial features. That's why it's "white" privilege, rather than Caucasian privilege.