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Guns as the great equalizer

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Woodpecker
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12 Jun 2015, 11:04 am

I suspect that a weedy person will find it much harder to use many guns than a strong man, I am a man with a firm grip but even I find that some guns are hard work. I have found that I can not grip a 9 mm pistol with the strength required to stop it jamming once in a while through "limp wristing". So I suspect that little old ladies will still be at a disadvantage compared with 21 year old men.


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12 Jun 2015, 11:06 am

AspieUtah wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
I don't think a gun would do me much good in such a situation as I would be reluctant to kill someone even if they were attacking me.

Possessing a firearm doesn't obligate the possessor to fire at anyone. And, as I have written here, simply displaying a firearm ends the criminality in an instant most of the time. Firing it is simply plan-B if displaying it doesn't work as expected.

What about the possibility of being overpowered and disarmed?

If anybody grabs for my firearm for any reason when I have drawn it, I will fire it. In my state, that is a clear reason to do so.

Except that you could kill someone. I suppose if someone were trying to hurt me I might fire. But it would be hard for me.



heavenlyabyss
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12 Jun 2015, 11:07 am

intended for raptor:

I really shouldn't reply to this but I appreciate the polite response. I know our stances on guns are 180 degrees opposite.

Well, I understand the point you are making and I have done a fair amount of thinking about this. And all I have to say is there is a little bit of fight in us all... it's just well, I'm never going to be a pro-gun type of guy. I guess that's just the way it is. I suppose you will never be a pro-gun-control-gun guy.

In an election I would vote for gun control because it would suit my interests. That's probably never going to change in my lifetime.



AspieUtah
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12 Jun 2015, 11:33 am

androbot01 wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
I don't think a gun would do me much good in such a situation as I would be reluctant to kill someone even if they were attacking me.

Possessing a firearm doesn't obligate the possessor to fire at anyone. And, as I have written here, simply displaying a firearm ends the criminality in an instant most of the time. Firing it is simply plan-B if displaying it doesn't work as expected.

What about the possibility of being overpowered and disarmed?

If anybody grabs for my firearm for any reason when I have drawn it, I will fire it. In my state, that is a clear reason to do so.

Except that you could kill someone. I suppose if someone were trying to hurt me I might fire. But it would be hard for me.

For me, your scenario is Darwin writ real. If a human adult grabbing at a drawn firearm doesn't yet understand the immediate danger in doing so, then I can't help them.


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Raptor
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12 Jun 2015, 11:46 am

androbot01 wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
I don't think a gun would do me much good in such a situation as I would be reluctant to kill someone even if they were attacking me.

Possessing a firearm doesn't obligate the possessor to fire at anyone. And, as I have written here, simply displaying a firearm ends the criminality in an instant most of the time. Firing it is simply plan-B if displaying it doesn't work as expected.

What about the possibility of being overpowered and disarmed?


IMHO, it should not be obvious that you are carrying a handgun or any other weapon in public.
The weapon (especially a gun) should never be drawn without justification and the will to use it.
If the assailant is close enough or almost close enough to make physical contact with you (1-3 or 4 ft, depending) then don't aim at them. It's not necessary and gives the assistant an opportunity to grab the gun from you. Hold it close to your body and point it like a garden hose.
This needs to be practiced both at home with an unloaded gun and at the range with ammo.

I HATE to use Hollywood as an example, but (obvious theatrics aside) this is a fairly good one to use as an example:



First off; note the quickness and decisiveness that the move is executed with.
Note how he draws the handgun and fires at the first threat while keepmg the gun in close to the body and in control and simply points it at the threat. He gives the first threat two rounds then raises his handgun up a little higher for better accuracy to take out the more distant second threat and gives him three bullets.


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Raptor
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12 Jun 2015, 11:56 am

Woodpecker wrote:
I suspect that a weedy person will find it much harder to use many guns than a strong man, I am a man with a firm grip but even I find that some guns are hard work. I have found that I can not grip a 9 mm pistol with the strength required to stop it jamming once in a while through "limp wristing". So I suspect that little old ladies will still be at a disadvantage compared with 21 year old men.


For a handgun I tend to recommend a double action revolver for those who don't shoot regularly or have physical limitations. That is with the condition that they actually do get in periodic trigger time with said revolver.


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androbot01
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12 Jun 2015, 12:00 pm

But what if I just don't want to shoot someone. Why should their actions make me a killer?
AspieUtah, I didn't know you were trying to help me; don't worry, I'm okay.



AspieUtah
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12 Jun 2015, 12:11 pm

androbot01 wrote:
But what if I just don't want to shoot someone. Why should their actions make me a killer...?

I dunno. Ask them; or, better yet, ask yourself.


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sly279
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12 Jun 2015, 2:52 pm

androbot01 wrote:
I don't think a gun would do me much good in such a situation as I would be reluctant to kill someone even if they were attacking me.


androbot01 wrote:
But what if I just don't want to shoot someone. Why should their actions make me a killer?
AspieUtah, I didn't know you were trying to help me; don't worry, I'm okay.


well that's your choice, and you're free to let someone kill you to keep your moral high ground. problem is when you try to ban guns and force other people to die for your moral high ground.
no one is trying to make you use or own a gun. yet your side is trying to take our guns away and say we can't have them.

this is the reason I dislike anti gunners. I have no problem with those who simple don't like guns. but those who think their way of thinking is the right and only way and everyone else should be forced to follow it. like the muslims who behead people and christians who raided the middle east in the middle ages, or the spanish who burned people for believing different. anti gunners are no different. they push their ideals on others or want to kill them. never met a gun owner who wants or desires to force everyone to own a gun. so its one side saying our way or death, and the other saying just leave us alone.

I'm non violent and I don't kill things, I don't hunt. I don't step on bugs unless I have to. I don't take life unless needed to. well defending myself or others is needed. if you try to hurt me or others you have crossed the line and going get whats needed to keep me and them alive and ok.

theres a difference between killing for fun, and killing to save a life.



sly279
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12 Jun 2015, 2:53 pm

Raptor wrote:

IMHO, it should not be obvious that you are carrying a handgun or any other weapon in public.
The weapon (especially a gun) should never be drawn without justification and the will to use it.
If the assailant is close enough or almost close enough to make physical contact with you (1-3 or 4 ft, depending) then don't aim at them. It's not necessary and gives the assistant an opportunity to grab the gun from you. Hold it close to your body and point it like a garden hose.
This needs to be practiced both at home with an unloaded gun and at the range with ammo.

I HATE to use Hollywood as an example, but (obvious theatrics aside) this is a fairly good one to use as an example:



First off; note the quickness and decisiveness that the move is executed with.
Note how he draws the handgun and fires at the first threat while keepmg the gun in close to the body and in control and simply points it at the threat. He gives the first threat two rounds then raises his handgun up a little higher for better accuracy to take out the more distant second threat and gives him three bullets.



thats the draw i practice. pulling it out of holster and up to pointing but still close to body, then bringing it up and out to a full aim. that way if they are close you can still fire if not you can still bring it to aim fast. vs going from holster to full aim. which takes time that if you don't have(there close or charging) you don't get a shot off. this is what the instructor and many online say to do. the first is pull twist then out, the later is pull straight up all the way then out. also practicing shooting one handed is good, so you can use your other hand to block a move to grab your gun while shooting with your other.



androbot01
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12 Jun 2015, 3:15 pm

sly279 wrote:
...well that's your choice, and you're free to let someone kill you to keep your moral high ground. problem is when you try to ban guns and force other people to die for your moral high ground.

I have no desire to see guns banned. Clearly it is important to some to have this freedom. I'm just talking about my own feelings regarding their use.



AspieUtah
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12 Jun 2015, 3:48 pm

androbot01 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
...well that's your choice, and you're free to let someone kill you to keep your moral high ground. problem is when you try to ban guns and force other people to die for your moral high ground.

I have no desire to see guns banned. Clearly it is important to some to have this freedom. I'm just talking about my own feelings regarding their use.

I respect that.


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androbot01
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12 Jun 2015, 4:46 pm

:twisted:

AspieUtah wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
...well that's your choice, and you're free to let someone kill you to keep your moral high ground. problem is when you try to ban guns and force other people to die for your moral high ground.

I have no desire to see guns banned. Clearly it is important to some to have this freedom. I'm just talking about my own feelings regarding their use.

I respect that.

Cool.
You can't uninvent the wheel.



kraftiekortie
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12 Jun 2015, 4:53 pm

I believe in the "right to bear arms"

But I believe people take "gun rights" to an extreme sometimes, to the exclusion of more important issues.



AspieUtah
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12 Jun 2015, 5:12 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe in the "right to bear arms"

But I believe people take "gun rights" to an extreme sometimes, to the exclusion of more important issues.

How so?

I agree that people focus on matters which are relatively meaningless (celebrity news, golf, weight loss, cars, music, sports). But, the Second Amendment to the Constitution for the United States of America is among the enumerated natural rights that our nation's Founders saw fit to protect explicitly. Perhaps, talking about the Bill of Rights deserves a little more attention from We the People than it receives. The current (and, judicially, the only) legal interpretation of the amendment suggests that there are many jurisdictions around the nation which still violate the amendment insofar as they continue to act outside the Court's interpretation. After all, once a U.S. constitutional right is gone, it will likely take more than another war to reinstate it.


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12 Jun 2015, 5:36 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe in the "right to bear arms"

But I believe people take "gun rights" to an extreme sometimes, to the exclusion of more important issues.

An example of "extremes" being what?
Define "more important", please.


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