Conservatives insist the rest of us live by their rules

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eric76
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29 Jun 2015, 3:00 pm

Fugu wrote:
eric76 wrote:
pcuser wrote:
Why do conservatives insist on telling the rest of us how we must live our lives? Of course their rules come from their religious beliefs as if the rest of us cannot have morals or ethics...


The question should be "Why do both the left and the right insist on telling us how we must live our lives?"

It hardly applies to just one group.
The right is operating on the platform of small government while telling people what they shouldn't be able to do with their bodies at the same time, which is not congruent with a small gov platform.


The Right (i.e. Republicans) hardly strike me as being in favor of small government.

As far as I can tell, the difference between the Left and the Right is not that one is big government and the other is small government, but that both are big government and only their focus of that big government is in different areas.

If you want small government, you are going to be dissatisfied with both Republicans and Democrats.



Sweetleaf
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29 Jun 2015, 3:05 pm

eric76 wrote:

The Right (i.e. Republicans) hardly strike me as being in favor of small government.

As far as I can tell, the difference between the Left and the Right is not that one is big government and the other is small government, but that both are big government and only their focus of that big government is in different areas.

If you want small government, you are going to be dissatisfied with both Republicans and Democrats.


^this


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Kraichgauer
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29 Jun 2015, 3:19 pm

eric76 wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
"Liberals" literally just unconstitutionally legally forced their beliefs on same-sex marriages on the rest of America.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of same-sex marriage - but let's not pretend it's only conservatives who do this.


in what regard was the ruling unconstitutional?


What part of the Constitution gives the government power to decide anything about marriage?

The only two places I can think of are:

1) The Tenth Amendment would reserve that power for the states.
2) If, as I believe, marriage is a religious institution, the First Amendment would leave it to religion.

I can't find any reason for the federal government to be involved in the issue at all.

(To make it clear: I'm not opposed to same sex marriage -- I just think it ought to be up to each church to decide for themselves.)


Marriage is more than just a religious ceremony; the actual marriage is the legal contract signed at the court house. You may not like that fact, but there it is. Until you can get the law changed, the government still has a right to intercede.
And as far as the churches deciding who can and can not get married is concerned - essentially, they already can. If a church doesn't believe in gay marriage, then they can turn a same sex couple away. It's just that that same church can't dictate whether that couple can marry or not at all somewhere else. After all, there are still bigoted churches that oppose interracial marriage, but no one is forcing them to perform the nuptials for an interracial couple.


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Dillogic
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29 Jun 2015, 4:55 pm

Fugu wrote:
guns aren't harmless.


People aren't harmless.



Feyokien
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29 Jun 2015, 5:04 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
eric76 wrote:

The Right (i.e. Republicans) hardly strike me as being in favor of small government.

As far as I can tell, the difference between the Left and the Right is not that one is big government and the other is small government, but that both are big government and only their focus of that big government is in different areas.

If you want small government, you are going to be dissatisfied with both Republicans and Democrats.


^this


yeah that



Fugu
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29 Jun 2015, 5:10 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Fugu wrote:
guns aren't harmless.


People aren't harmless.
<insert non-sequitur here>



Dillogic
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29 Jun 2015, 5:17 pm

Fugu wrote:
<insert non-sequitur here>


Nope.

You don't give any explanation for why firearms aren't harmless, and you actually used a false cause fallacy in your implications.

They're inanimate weapons that don't do anything until a person uses them for good (targets, hunting, collecting and defense) or bad (murder).

What you mean is, you think humans are inherently bad and will use a firearm for murder, even though there's more than enough evidence to show that majority of people will never murder someone.



Fugu
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29 Jun 2015, 5:25 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Fugu wrote:
<insert non-sequitur here>


Nope.

You don't give any explanation for why firearms aren't harmless, and you actually used a false cause fallacy in your implications.

They're inanimate weapons that don't do anything until a person uses them for good (targets, hunting, collecting and defense) or bad (murder).

What you mean is, you think humans are inherently bad and will use a firearm for murder, even though there's more than enough evidence to show that majority of people will never murder someone.
you must have missed all those numbers I posted on people getting hurt or killed with firearms. if you take the firearm out of that equation, you will logically have less people dead.



sly279
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29 Jun 2015, 5:27 pm

ctte2112 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
lets see right to bear arms

When has a Democratic politician proposed an amendment to abolish the Second Amendment?

Quote:
right to privacy

Explain.

Quote:
right to of religion

Actually, I find this to be the opposite. Republicans want to legislate based on their religious beliefs, even if it means discriminating against others. It was illegal for me to get married until a few days ago because of how Republicans believe their god feels about it. My rights were infringed in two ways there: I was discriminated against for being gay and I was discriminated against for not being a conservative Christian. Does freedom of religion apply only to Christians? Democrats want separation of church and state, which is the only way to truly have freedom of religion.

Quote:
right of your property(laws that say what you can and can't do with your own house)

I've never heard of this. Can you be more specific?

Quote:
right to not have police come in your home without a warrant

Elaborate.

Quote:
also the right not paying for abortions is hardly the war on women

Republicans are trying to ban it.

Quote:
they want to make women slaves and keep them in the kitchen.

What?

Quote:
not paying for something isn't the same as banning it.

They are trying to ban it, though.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/republicans ... -language/

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/13/politics/ ... -20-weeks/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/0 ... Roe-v-Wade

http://www.salon.com/2014/11/21/ohio_re ... _pregnant/

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ssue_.html

Quote:
I'm in the middle I see both sides for the evil they are.

The two main parties are both right wing. In between two right wing parties is not the middle. The middle would actually be somewhere between the Democratic Party and the Green Party.


1. yeah because making impossible to vote isn't taking away peoples right to vote right? yeah no its the exact same. if you make it so everyone is locked in a cell but never removed the bill of rights then do you still have rights or is it just a peice of paper. so if they bann all guns and ammo do we have a right to bear arms? :roll:

2. NSA, TSA, DHS, read the news lately? we have no privacy anymore.

3. really are your kids forced to learn creatinism at school, nope chrisitans are forced to learn about evolution and sex despite their beliefs. its becoming more and more illegal to be a christian in public.

4.see California. there are cities that have made it illegal to keep anything but a car in your garage, its your house what right do they have to tell you where you can and can't put stuff.

5. see patriot act.

6. where? name a law proposed to congress to do so? they fought the supreme court to not pay for it in insurance this isn't banningit. I heard when that was happening that "they'll trying to ban it" but that was just lies to drive up support.

7. during the last election the left said that rommry or whatever was going remove women's rights if elected. restore it to the 1920s style, fire all women and force them back into slavery int he kitchen. see war on women.

9. what. lol. no the democrats are not right at all. so are you a anarchy type of guy?



sly279
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29 Jun 2015, 5:30 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I think people should have the right to guns...and I'd describe myself as being on the left, I don't see what is so wrong about a government that actually serves its people as in providing social services and attempting to ensure all the citizens have access to things like food, water, medical care, shelter(or at least stop criminalizing the homeless for camping)...but I certainly do not agree with limiting personal freedoms 'for the greater good' I mean where does it end. So IDK I don't think its the whole left that wants guns banned...but this is why I don't support the democratic party, sure they are 'left' but they still have a way of wanting to regulate personal freedom too much, just because they come up with more 'secular' reasons doesn't mean its any better than when the religious conservatives do it.

But yeah if they ban guns, criminals can still get them...illegally, and use them to harm people, it just stops people who would not commit gun crimes buying guns or at least discourages them some might still go the illegal route, but some wouldn't take the risk. I just wish people didn't see the democrats of our two party system as a representation of the entire over-all left. They should leave SSI/SSDI alone, its already low enough...at least SSI, not entirely sure on SSDI.


funding for both run out in 2016. the republicans refuse to fund it. from what I hear they'll either cut the payments in half, or boot half the people off. where did the funding go you ask, well congress for the last 20 years has ben stealing it and putting it in the general fund with an IOU that they now refuse to repay. yay.



sly279
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29 Jun 2015, 5:31 pm

Fugu wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
Fugu wrote:
<insert non-sequitur here>


Nope.

You don't give any explanation for why firearms aren't harmless, and you actually used a false cause fallacy in your implications.

They're inanimate weapons that don't do anything until a person uses them for good (targets, hunting, collecting and defense) or bad (murder).

What you mean is, you think humans are inherently bad and will use a firearm for murder, even though there's more than enough evidence to show that majority of people will never murder someone.
you must have missed all those numbers I posted on people getting hurt or killed with firearms. if you take the firearm out of that equation, you will logically have less people dead.


you assume the only reason those people killed others is firearms. that if you pick one up it makes you kill people.
reality check they don't. those people would be killed with other stuff. people kill people. always will. they just find another way.

30k out of 300 million. then ad in births that year. really its a smalle tiny speck in the grand scheme. when 100 million people die a year from guns then we can talk about banning them.



Fugu
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29 Jun 2015, 5:34 pm

sly279 wrote:
Fugu wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
Fugu wrote:
<insert non-sequitur here>


Nope.

You don't give any explanation for why firearms aren't harmless, and you actually used a false cause fallacy in your implications.

They're inanimate weapons that don't do anything until a person uses them for good (targets, hunting, collecting and defense) or bad (murder).

What you mean is, you think humans are inherently bad and will use a firearm for murder, even though there's more than enough evidence to show that majority of people will never murder someone.
you must have missed all those numbers I posted on people getting hurt or killed with firearms. if you take the firearm out of that equation, you will logically have less people dead.


you assume the only reason those people killed others is firearms. that if you pick one up it makes you kill people.
reality check they don't. those people would be killed with other stuff. people kill people. always will. they just find another way.

30k out of 300 million. then ad in births that year. really its a smalle tiny speck in the grand scheme. when 100 million people die a year from guns then we can talk about banning them.
no, I can logically infer that if the guns weren't in the situation, less people would be dead.



Dillogic
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29 Jun 2015, 5:35 pm

Fugu wrote:
you must have missed all those numbers I posted on people getting hurt or killed with firearms. if you take the firearm out of that equation, you will logically have less people dead.


Method substitution is your logical answer.

If someone has intent to murder someone else, they'll logically use whatever means they have available to them. If all you have is a knife at hand, that will make do, and considering 99.99999% of murders are domestic, acquaintance and in the act of committing another crime, the added range of a firearm doesn't matter all that much.



Fugu
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29 Jun 2015, 5:40 pm

sly279 wrote:
1. yeah because making impossible to vote isn't taking away peoples right to vote right? yeah no its the exact same. if you make it so everyone is locked in a cell but never removed the bill of rights then do you still have rights or is it just a peice of paper. so if they bann all guns and ammo do we have a right to bear arms? :roll:

2. NSA, TSA, DHS, read the news lately? we have no privacy anymore.

3. really are your kids forced to learn creatinism at school, nope chrisitans are forced to learn about evolution and sex despite their beliefs. its becoming more and more illegal to be a christian in public.
belief isn't the same as science fyi
Quote:
4.see California. there are cities that have made it illegal to keep anything but a car in your garage, its your house what right do they have to tell you where you can and can't put stuff.

5. see patriot act.

6. where? name a law proposed to congress to do so? they fought the supreme court to not pay for it in insurance this isn't banningit. I heard when that was happening that "they'll trying to ban it" but that was just lies to drive up support.
tell that to all the woman who can't afford birth control for what it's meant for or to help with a bunch of other women's health issues[link] that birth control pills can help with.



Fugu
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29 Jun 2015, 5:46 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Fugu wrote:
you must have missed all those numbers I posted on people getting hurt or killed with firearms. if you take the firearm out of that equation, you will logically have less people dead.


Method substitution is your logical answer.

If someone has intent to murder someone else, they'll logically use whatever means they have available to them. If all you have is a knife at hand, that will make do, and considering 99.99999% of murders are domestic, acquaintance and in the act of committing another crime, the added range of a firearm doesn't matter all that much.
true, however knives are pretty messy as you're probably going to end up cutting yourself and leaving dna and such at the scene. having this happen with a gun would require you to stick your flesh into the slide's gap or something. also, you can't really block a bullet with your arm or whatever is handy.



pcuser
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29 Jun 2015, 6:07 pm

Fugu wrote:
sly279 wrote:
1. yeah because making impossible to vote isn't taking away peoples right to vote right? yeah no its the exact same. if you make it so everyone is locked in a cell but never removed the bill of rights then do you still have rights or is it just a peice of paper. so if they bann all guns and ammo do we have a right to bear arms? :roll:

2. NSA, TSA, DHS, read the news lately? we have no privacy anymore.

3. really are your kids forced to learn creatinism at school, nope chrisitans are forced to learn about evolution and sex despite their beliefs. its becoming more and more illegal to be a christian in public.
belief isn't the same as science fyi
Quote:
4.see California. there are cities that have made it illegal to keep anything but a car in your garage, its your house what right do they have to tell you where you can and can't put stuff.

5. see patriot act.

6. where? name a law proposed to congress to do so? they fought the supreme court to not pay for it in insurance this isn't banningit. I heard when that was happening that "they'll trying to ban it" but that was just lies to drive up support.
tell that to all the woman who can't afford birth control for what it's meant for or to help with a bunch of other women's health issues[link] that birth control pills can help with.

Also, why does insurance pay for Viagra for men but restricts many things for women???