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Kraichgauer
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09 Jul 2015, 1:47 am

Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The untenable situation is that white people are being forced to give up their culture and racial identity while minorities have there's celebrated and protected. I don't believe in multiculturalism, I think it is just segregation and that the melting pot is part of what made America great. When you move to America you are leaving behind your old country and culture, you should become an American first and assimilate. The fact is that American culture and society will always be dominated by Europeans to a certain degree because Europeans are by far the largest group, there isn't anything wrong with that as Americans are the most open and least racist people in the world. American culture has built the most powerful superpower in history and got us to the moon, immigration should be treated are an honor not an entitlement because I don't care what anybody tells you not every immigrant is a net positive for the country and it is humanitarian immigration policy. If you love your home country and culture more than you love America then don't bother leaving in the first place, don't come here if all you want is entitlements and to wall yourself off.


Paragraph breaks: They're not just for breakfast anymore.

Anyway, how are we being forced to give up our culture?

There are several scandinavian-themed celebrations within a hundred miles of me every year. I don't feel as though my culture is threatened.

Also how can you not believe in multiculturalism AND feel like preserving your specific culture?

Are you really trying to grammarnazi me?

Anyways, those ethnic festivals of which I know very well growing up in Milwaukee aren't what I am talking about when I talk about culture but rather how people separate and see themselves as distinct from other peoples. When you analogue the methods and importance placed on preserving minority cultures to "white culture" then it is seen as supremacist and hateful, do you understand where I am coming from when I say it is untenable this way? This is where the Dylann Roofs of the world are created.

Overt legal racism is for the most part over, there are some things that remain that disproportionately effect certain peoples more than others which I don't support of course but the reality is that there isn't much to be fighting for any more except these "culture wars". Equality means equality, you don't get to be equal +1. Either we're the same or we're not, you can't tilt the playing field one way and not expect the other side to resent it. The reality is that most of the racial inequality in this country is a remnant and the oppression that led to it is over and has been for a while now. Since we live in real time and cannot undo the past all we can do is move forward, if we are to be equal now and going forward then the past has to be let go. I


Am I misunderstanding you as to say that Dylan Roof was justified in his racist reaction, in that non-white cultures are a threat to our culture?
And our white European culture is in no danger of disappearing.


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Jacoby
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09 Jul 2015, 2:00 am

I don't believe my post was hard for you to understand but whatever dude, perhaps I should try the beat poetry and youtube route instead.

Food is something that transverses cultures pretty easily at least it does in America as part of our culture is that we enjoy the foods of other cultures but I think that is probably true everywhere as food is naturally inclusive as opposed to language for example. America would look a lot different without its melting pot ideas, I very much doubt I would be speaking English right now. My grandfather spoke German at home exclusively until he was 5 and this was in the 20s after WWI, if the German immigrants in Wisconsin had their way they would of had all their schools/churches/businesses/etc in German and wouldn't of learned English.

So if Wisconsin was allowed to become totally Germanized as it likely would of without interference, do you think the people there would of felt connected to rest of country or would they hold themselves totally distinct? What do you think would of happened when a disagreement arose? Do you think an even more Germanized Wisconsin would had the same opinion on waging war against Germany as the rest of the country? The political beliefs that many of the German immigrants brought with them to this country were of the radical and revolutionary type, what type of politics would a Germanized Wisconsin have when compared to the rest of the country? It is kind of interesting when you think about it but I think the country as a whole is happier we just drink beer and eat brats instead.

I think we have the same idea of legal equality, my point is that the rest cannot be rectified while being legally equal. You can't make up for lost time, you can't change the past, you can't raise somebody up without pushing someone down or denying someone equally maligned that same opportunity. Society is divided primarily by class not race, issues of class are of much more importance of issues of race in 2015 but we can't even get started with that discussion since we always get bogged down by racial division.



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09 Jul 2015, 2:17 am

Jacoby wrote:
I don't believe my post was hard for you to understand but whatever dude, perhaps I should try the beat poetry and youtube route instead.

Food is something that transverses cultures pretty easily at least it does in America as part of our culture is that we enjoy the foods of other cultures but I think that is probably true everywhere as food is naturally inclusive as opposed to language for example. America would look a lot different without its melting pot ideas, I very much doubt I would be speaking English right now. My grandfather spoke German at home exclusively until he was 5 and this was in the 20s after WWI, if the German immigrants in Wisconsin had their way they would of had all their schools/churches/businesses/etc in German and wouldn't of learned English.

So if Wisconsin was allowed to become totally Germanized as it likely would of without interference, do you think the people there would of felt connected to rest of country or would they hold themselves totally distinct? What do you think would of happened when a disagreement arose? Do you think an even more Germanized Wisconsin would had the same opinion on waging war against Germany as the rest of the country? The political beliefs that many of the German immigrants brought with them to this country were of the radical and revolutionary type, what type of politics would a Germanized Wisconsin have when compared to the rest of the country? It is kind of interesting when you think about it but I think the country as a whole is happier we just drink beer and eat brats instead.

I think we have the same idea of legal equality, my point is that the rest cannot be rectified while being legally equal. You can't make up for lost time, you can't change the past, you can't raise somebody up without pushing someone down or denying someone equally maligned that same opportunity. Society is divided primarily by class not race, issues of class are of much more importance of issues of race in 2015 but we can't even get started with that discussion since we always get bogged down by racial division.


I only asked because you had stated: "this is where the Dylan Roofs of the world are created."


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09 Jul 2015, 2:29 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The untenable situation is that white people are being forced to give up their culture and racial identity while minorities have there's celebrated and protected. I don't believe in multiculturalism, I think it is just segregation and that the melting pot is part of what made America great. When you move to America you are leaving behind your old country and culture, you should become an American first and assimilate. The fact is that American culture and society will always be dominated by Europeans to a certain degree because Europeans are by far the largest group, there isn't anything wrong with that as Americans are the most open and least racist people in the world. American culture has built the most powerful superpower in history and got us to the moon, immigration should be treated are an honor not an entitlement because I don't care what anybody tells you not every immigrant is a net positive for the country and it is humanitarian immigration policy. If you love your home country and culture more than you love America then don't bother leaving in the first place, don't come here if all you want is entitlements and to wall yourself off.


Paragraph breaks: They're not just for breakfast anymore.

Anyway, how are we being forced to give up our culture?

There are several scandinavian-themed celebrations within a hundred miles of me every year. I don't feel as though my culture is threatened.

Also how can you not believe in multiculturalism AND feel like preserving your specific culture?

Are you really trying to grammarnazi me?

Anyways, those ethnic festivals of which I know very well growing up in Milwaukee aren't what I am talking about when I talk about culture but rather how people separate and see themselves as distinct from other peoples. When you analogue the methods and importance placed on preserving minority cultures to "white culture" then it is seen as supremacist and hateful, do you understand where I am coming from when I say it is untenable this way? This is where the Dylann Roofs of the world are created.

Overt legal racism is for the most part over, there are some things that remain that disproportionately effect certain peoples more than others which I don't support of course but the reality is that there isn't much to be fighting for any more except these "culture wars". Equality means equality, you don't get to be equal +1. Either we're the same or we're not, you can't tilt the playing field one way and not expect the other side to resent it. The reality is that most of the racial inequality in this country is a remnant and the oppression that led to it is over and has been for a while now. Since we live in real time and cannot undo the past all we can do is move forward, if we are to be equal now and going forward then the past has to be let go. I


Am I misunderstanding you as to say that Dylan Roof was justified in his racist reaction, in that non-white cultures are a threat to our culture?
And our white European culture is in no danger of disappearing.


You are misinterpreting the point I was making, it is basically that you can't be separate but equal. When you apply the same methods and ideology of those that wish to preserve minority culture to white people, it would be seen as racist and I would probably agree. Think about all the racist organizations that analogue their name with civil rights and minority groups, its not just them thumbing their nose but a genuine belief that it does analogue. It doesn't matter what we think, it doesn't matter if they are factually wrong, that is what these people believe.

I want a monoculture, the melting pot where we are all Americans first and foremost. Skin color should not divide us and as long as we distinguish ourselves by race there will be racism.



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09 Jul 2015, 2:37 am

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The untenable situation is that white people are being forced to give up their culture and racial identity while minorities have there's celebrated and protected. I don't believe in multiculturalism, I think it is just segregation and that the melting pot is part of what made America great. When you move to America you are leaving behind your old country and culture, you should become an American first and assimilate. The fact is that American culture and society will always be dominated by Europeans to a certain degree because Europeans are by far the largest group, there isn't anything wrong with that as Americans are the most open and least racist people in the world. American culture has built the most powerful superpower in history and got us to the moon, immigration should be treated are an honor not an entitlement because I don't care what anybody tells you not every immigrant is a net positive for the country and it is humanitarian immigration policy. If you love your home country and culture more than you love America then don't bother leaving in the first place, don't come here if all you want is entitlements and to wall yourself off.


Paragraph breaks: They're not just for breakfast anymore.

Anyway, how are we being forced to give up our culture?

There are several scandinavian-themed celebrations within a hundred miles of me every year. I don't feel as though my culture is threatened.

Also how can you not believe in multiculturalism AND feel like preserving your specific culture?

Are you really trying to grammarnazi me?

Anyways, those ethnic festivals of which I know very well growing up in Milwaukee aren't what I am talking about when I talk about culture but rather how people separate and see themselves as distinct from other peoples. When you analogue the methods and importance placed on preserving minority cultures to "white culture" then it is seen as supremacist and hateful, do you understand where I am coming from when I say it is untenable this way? This is where the Dylann Roofs of the world are created.

Overt legal racism is for the most part over, there are some things that remain that disproportionately effect certain peoples more than others which I don't support of course but the reality is that there isn't much to be fighting for any more except these "culture wars". Equality means equality, you don't get to be equal +1. Either we're the same or we're not, you can't tilt the playing field one way and not expect the other side to resent it. The reality is that most of the racial inequality in this country is a remnant and the oppression that led to it is over and has been for a while now. Since we live in real time and cannot undo the past all we can do is move forward, if we are to be equal now and going forward then the past has to be let go. I


Am I misunderstanding you as to say that Dylan Roof was justified in his racist reaction, in that non-white cultures are a threat to our culture?
And our white European culture is in no danger of disappearing.


You are misinterpreting the point I was making, it is basically that you can't be separate but equal. When you apply the same methods and ideology of those that wish to preserve minority culture to white people, it would be seen as racist and I would probably agree. Think about all the racist organizations that analogue their name with civil rights and minority groups, its not just them thumbing their nose but a genuine belief that it does analogue. It doesn't matter what we think, it doesn't matter if they are factually wrong, that is what these people believe.

I want a monoculture, the melting pot where we are all Americans first and foremost. Skin color should not divide us and as long as we distinguish ourselves by race there will be racism.


While I'm not entirely in agreement with you, I apologize for the misunderstanding, as I had just awakened from a long sleep after dinner upon reading your post, and I was still a bit fuzzy headed.
By the way, Beat poetry was pretty cool! :lol:


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09 Jul 2015, 8:13 am

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The untenable situation is that white people are being forced to give up their culture and racial identity while minorities have there's celebrated and protected. I don't believe in multiculturalism, I think it is just segregation and that the melting pot is part of what made America great. When you move to America you are leaving behind your old country and culture, you should become an American first and assimilate. The fact is that American culture and society will always be dominated by Europeans to a certain degree because Europeans are by far the largest group, there isn't anything wrong with that as Americans are the most open and least racist people in the world. American culture has built the most powerful superpower in history and got us to the moon, immigration should be treated are an honor not an entitlement because I don't care what anybody tells you not every immigrant is a net positive for the country and it is humanitarian immigration policy. If you love your home country and culture more than you love America then don't bother leaving in the first place, don't come here if all you want is entitlements and to wall yourself off.


Paragraph breaks: They're not just for breakfast anymore.

Anyway, how are we being forced to give up our culture?

There are several scandinavian-themed celebrations within a hundred miles of me every year. I don't feel as though my culture is threatened.

Also how can you not believe in multiculturalism AND feel like preserving your specific culture?

Are you really trying to grammarnazi me?

Anyways, those ethnic festivals of which I know very well growing up in Milwaukee aren't what I am talking about when I talk about culture but rather how people separate and see themselves as distinct from other peoples. When you analogue the methods and importance placed on preserving minority cultures to "white culture" then it is seen as supremacist and hateful, do you understand where I am coming from when I say it is untenable this way? This is where the Dylann Roofs of the world are created.

Overt legal racism is for the most part over, there are some things that remain that disproportionately effect certain peoples more than others which I don't support of course but the reality is that there isn't much to be fighting for any more except these "culture wars". Equality means equality, you don't get to be equal +1. Either we're the same or we're not, you can't tilt the playing field one way and not expect the other side to resent it. The reality is that most of the racial inequality in this country is a remnant and the oppression that led to it is over and has been for a while now. Since we live in real time and cannot undo the past all we can do is move forward, if we are to be equal now and going forward then the past has to be let go. I


Am I misunderstanding you as to say that Dylan Roof was justified in his racist reaction, in that non-white cultures are a threat to our culture?
And our white European culture is in no danger of disappearing.


You are misinterpreting the point I was making, it is basically that you can't be separate but equal. When you apply the same methods and ideology of those that wish to preserve minority culture to white people, it would be seen as racist and I would probably agree. Think about all the racist organizations that analogue their name with civil rights and minority groups, its not just them thumbing their nose but a genuine belief that it does analogue. It doesn't matter what we think, it doesn't matter if they are factually wrong, that is what these people believe.

I want a monoculture, the melting pot where we are all Americans first and foremost. Skin color should not divide us and as long as we distinguish ourselves by race there will be racism.



I still don't see where "white people", as a group, have a common culture.



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09 Jul 2015, 9:19 am

I can't have pride in something I haven't done. My "race", for example. I never understood any form of external pride for this reason.

I admire feats, though; both the good and bad. The German V-2 rocket or US (various genealogy there) Fat Man/Little Boy exemplifies this perfectly.



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09 Jul 2015, 11:07 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The untenable situation is that white people are being forced to give up their culture and racial identity while minorities have there's celebrated and protected. I don't believe in multiculturalism, I think it is just segregation and that the melting pot is part of what made America great. When you move to America you are leaving behind your old country and culture, you should become an American first and assimilate. The fact is that American culture and society will always be dominated by Europeans to a certain degree because Europeans are by far the largest group, there isn't anything wrong with that as Americans are the most open and least racist people in the world. American culture has built the most powerful superpower in history and got us to the moon, immigration should be treated are an honor not an entitlement because I don't care what anybody tells you not every immigrant is a net positive for the country and it is humanitarian immigration policy. If you love your home country and culture more than you love America then don't bother leaving in the first place, don't come here if all you want is entitlements and to wall yourself off.


Paragraph breaks: They're not just for breakfast anymore.

Anyway, how are we being forced to give up our culture?

There are several scandinavian-themed celebrations within a hundred miles of me every year. I don't feel as though my culture is threatened.

Also how can you not believe in multiculturalism AND feel like preserving your specific culture?

Are you really trying to grammarnazi me?

Anyways, those ethnic festivals of which I know very well growing up in Milwaukee aren't what I am talking about when I talk about culture but rather how people separate and see themselves as distinct from other peoples. When you analogue the methods and importance placed on preserving minority cultures to "white culture" then it is seen as supremacist and hateful, do you understand where I am coming from when I say it is untenable this way? This is where the Dylann Roofs of the world are created.

Overt legal racism is for the most part over, there are some things that remain that disproportionately effect certain peoples more than others which I don't support of course but the reality is that there isn't much to be fighting for any more except these "culture wars". Equality means equality, you don't get to be equal +1. Either we're the same or we're not, you can't tilt the playing field one way and not expect the other side to resent it. The reality is that most of the racial inequality in this country is a remnant and the oppression that led to it is over and has been for a while now. Since we live in real time and cannot undo the past all we can do is move forward, if we are to be equal now and going forward then the past has to be let go. I


Am I misunderstanding you as to say that Dylan Roof was justified in his racist reaction, in that non-white cultures are a threat to our culture?
And our white European culture is in no danger of disappearing.


You are misinterpreting the point I was making, it is basically that you can't be separate but equal. When you apply the same methods and ideology of those that wish to preserve minority culture to white people, it would be seen as racist and I would probably agree. Think about all the racist organizations that analogue their name with civil rights and minority groups, its not just them thumbing their nose but a genuine belief that it does analogue. It doesn't matter what we think, it doesn't matter if they are factually wrong, that is what these people believe.

I want a monoculture, the melting pot where we are all Americans first and foremost. Skin color should not divide us and as long as we distinguish ourselves by race there will be racism.



I still don't see where "white people", as a group, have a common culture.


You are seeing the rest of the world from the outside looking in, even tho we probably differ from each in numerous ways we also obviously we share a lot in common culture relative to a goat herder from Afghanistan for example. Since we share so much it is easy to see the differences among us, there are subcultures and subcultures of subcultures but that's true in every culture. That wasn't the point of my post tho, I'm not lamenting the fate of "white culture" but rather advocating a policy of assimilation and integration into one monoculture where we don't distinguish ourselves by skin color. Most white Americans have left behind most their distinct European culture and identities, most identify simply as white or American.

Teddy Roosevelt's thoughts on "hyphenated Americans"

Quote:
There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all … The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic … There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.



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09 Jul 2015, 11:34 am

Now I want to add everything they did to try to achieve the melting pt wasn't right by any stretch and I don't think it is necessary either. A few laws and policies should be changed but for the most part just being a welcoming open people should be enough since there are plenty of people that actually want to come this country and be apart of our culture.

This song by Lupe Fiasco came on as I was typing this that I thought was relevant, Lupe has an admirable vision.



Still working on the beat poetry



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09 Jul 2015, 11:41 am

blauSamstag wrote:
I still don't see where "white people", as a group, have a common culture.


The future of America is that a lot places you will go, you won't see a white person.

The "culture change" is that the white people are gone from these areas.



Last edited by LoveNotHate on 09 Jul 2015, 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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09 Jul 2015, 11:42 am

Teddy Roosevelt was wrong.

Is not a puerto-rican-american also an american?

Aren't they american first 364 days of the year, and puerto rican first on just one?

Who are you to say they shouldn't be?



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09 Jul 2015, 11:45 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
I still don't see where "white people", as a group, have a common culture.


The future of America is that a lot places you will go, you won't see a white person.

The "culture change" is that the white people are gone.


Your statement here doesn't address the statement of mine that you quoted.

If you have a problem with a white minority future, all you can or should do is have more kids. Assuming that you are white.



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09 Jul 2015, 12:28 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
I still don't see where "white people", as a group, have a common culture.


The future of America is that a lot places you will go, you won't see a white person.

The "culture change" is that the white people are gone from these areas.


The meek will inherit the earth; same as always; the story stays the same;

Currently, the meek includes more Brown skinned Muslim oriented Folks;
and Catholic oriented Hispanics; often poor; but really
good at doing the wilD thing; and staying
together as a family unit.

The future as always
is in those who
are 'smart' enough
to reproduce AND
STICK TOGETHER
RAISING THE
LITTLE ONES;
LIKE A REAL
VILLAGE
CAN and
DOES
DO THE
BEST..:)

And to be clear;
I don't have any
kids; but even
with fair skin
and crystal
blue eyes;
I for one
always
LOVE
dark
skin
brown eye
girls; I suppose
they are a more
robust way of life;
at least somewhere
deep inside my
innate instinct
and intuition;
of what will
work best in life;

I ain't afraid of
BROWN.

And I suppose
I am fortunate
that at least
one dark
skin brown
eye girl
still loves
fair skin
blue eye
boys enough
to go with me..;)

But I do stay tan; as
the Sioux and Cherokee;
Cajun (Spanish/French)
roots do allow; along with
all those German,
Irish, And Queen
Victoria English
'Angelic'
Light Eye
and Skin
roots;
smiles;

HETerogenous is
the best way;
overall;
to create
in human
diversity;
with Tough
Unconditional
Love or Not..:)

The melting
pot is wHere
It is
AT
and TAN
is the way
of the future
for SURE!..:)

YES, EVEN PEW POLL; agrees that in the coming decades;
a dark skin DARK EYE; GOD FEARING PEOPLE; IS THE
WAY OF LIFE
TO COME..:)

The proof IS IN
Church
and Village BED.

Karma IS Kool.

What Comes
Around
does GO AROUND
AND
AROUND..:)

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/


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09 Jul 2015, 12:37 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Teddy Roosevelt was wrong.

Is not a puerto-rican-american also an american?

Aren't they american first 364 days of the year, and puerto rican first on just one?

Who are you to say they shouldn't be?


The status of Puerto Rico is another interesting subject, I don't think they should be a state and if you watched the news lately you will know at least one reason why but there are plenty of other issues too. As they are a colonial asset, they should be granted independence and be allowed to make their own decisions. They can be independent and still have a special relationship with the United States. People born here are usually more chill about it but almost all the Puerto Ricans I've known from the island would probably identify as Puerto Rican first and foremost before they ever would American, they're a very proud people. I feel like progress on the island is stagnated because it is a colonial asset with limits on its self governance, there is some serious serious brain drain going on too. Independence would truly allow the people on the island to take ownership for themselves in a way they couldn't being subjugated to a superpower with foreign culture a sea away and I believe people would rise to that challenge and make it a country worthy being proud of.



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09 Jul 2015, 12:42 pm

This is what roosevelt's xenophobia wrought:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27373131



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09 Jul 2015, 2:25 pm

That's FDR, I quoted his older distant cousin Theodore. Teddy could be described as a xenophobic white supremacist in modern terms for sure but at his time he was more progressive than most, he took a lot of flack for just for having dinner with Booker T. Washington at the White House in 1901. To give an example of the time, this poem was written in response to that meeting...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggers_in_the_White_House

What's messed up is this "poem" actually reappeared more than 25 years later when Herbert Hoover's wife had tea with the wife of a black congressman. A US senator from South Carolina actually read it on the floor of the senate in an attempt to get it added to the Congressional Record, luckily some northern Republicans took issue with it and protested it's addition.



Last edited by Jacoby on 09 Jul 2015, 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.