Page 6 of 27 [ 424 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 27  Next

Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

25 Dec 2015, 5:18 pm

The "pay gap" isn't a relevant issue regardless, women are not discriminated against as far as employment goes and by most accounts better equipped to deal with the modern economy. Far more women go to college then men in a country that has more and more moved to a society where having a college degree is as necessary as a high school one as far as employment goes.



Aniihya
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2015
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 771

25 Dec 2015, 5:51 pm

I don't like intersectional feminists because they often tend to be one-sided. More people prefer the term humanist or egalitarian over feminist because in recent years feminism has become synonymous with radicality, gynarchy or a female-centered world view.



0_equals_true
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,038
Location: London

25 Dec 2015, 9:52 pm

wilburforce wrote:
Men who argue against the existence of a pay gap remind me of christian fundies and republicans who argue against the existence of climate change.


There is far more conclusive evidence for climate change.

I think these groups are to be honest they need to make clear they are not talking about pay gap, but possible issue in getting hired or comparing different careers and their salaries.

Btw is it men and women who contest this claim. Not just men.

Also the technical careers in question most people are not in, that is men and women. It just happens to be that more men are in them. But this is in countries where you have a broader choice of career. In countries where you don't the story can be quite different.



0_equals_true
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,038
Location: London

25 Dec 2015, 9:58 pm

Aniihya wrote:
I don't like intersectional feminists because they often tend to be one-sided. More people prefer the term humanist or egalitarian over feminist because in recent years feminism has become synonymous with radicality, gynarchy or a female-centered world view.


I prefer choice/equality feminist over gender feminist. However I agree with you, we need to stop the divisiveness and understand that discrimination is all over the place and these broad conspiracies model its nature very poorly.

I find it hard to understand why such group are so keen on pigeon-holing people and grading them by their assumed identity, you would think that would be counter to their aims.



Wolfram87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,976
Location: Sweden

26 Dec 2015, 6:42 am

wilburforce wrote:
Men who argue against the existence of a pay gap remind me of christian fundies and republicans who argue against the existence of climate change.


The severity of the pay gap is a central tenet of the feminist faith, while climate change is significantly more substantiated.

Christina Hoff Sommers on the subject: http://www.aei.org/publication/the-equa ... ity-check/


_________________
I'm bored out of my skull, let's play a different game. Let's pay a visit down below and cast the world in flame.


cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,183
Location: A swiftly tilting planet

26 Dec 2015, 6:49 am

I think the by-products of drinking Haterade are a key factor in climate change.

I want my weekly blizzards back. No not the Dairy Queen kind, they're a subsidiary of Haterade corp.


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


RushKing
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,340
Location: Minnesota, United States

26 Dec 2015, 10:19 am

Wolfram87 wrote:

The severity of the pay gap is a central tenet of the feminist faith, while climate change is significantly more substantiated.

Christina Hoff Sommers on the subject: http://www.aei.org/publication/the-equa ... ity-check/

The pay gap is the central tenet of capitalist/liberal feminism. I think there are much more gender issues worth discussing than just the pay gap.



AR1500
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 27 Oct 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 229
Location: Unknown

26 Dec 2015, 11:04 am

Aniihya wrote:
I don't like intersectional feminists because they often tend to be one-sided. More people prefer the term humanist or egalitarian over feminist because in recent years feminism has become synonymous with radicality, gynarchy or a female-centered world view.



Humanists seek universal cooperation among everyone. Radicals are NOT about cooperation! In fact, radical ideology is a strategy for social competition.



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,914
Location: Long Island, New York

26 Dec 2015, 12:51 pm

First of all unless there are feminists that really would like a final solution killing off all men we should not be calling them Nazis.

I remember feminists often bieng called man haters back in the '70's when feminism was associated with equal pay and rights with debunking the idea that women exist solely for the pleasure of men. Now some 40 odd years later feminism is associated with creating and manipulating language to ban certain thought, the belief that all men are overt and closet rapists and that women are so fragile they need safe spaces(another good idea whose meaning has been hijacked/redefined by opponents)

My question bieng old and out of touch is not if these extreamist feminists exist, but if they are a fringe part of feminism that has come to define the term because 1. These extremists are loud and persistent 2. It is in the interest of opponents of feminism to redefine the term to mean what the extreme wing of the movement believe?


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Wolfram87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,976
Location: Sweden

26 Dec 2015, 1:35 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
First of all unless there are feminists that really would like a final solution killing off all men we should not be calling them Nazis.


Ever hear of the SCUM manifesto? I'd like to think of it as as the ramblings of a madwoman not taken seriously by anyone, but there's apparently a play based on it touring here in sweden right now. As part of the presentation, female 7th graders are seated in comfy chairs and given candy, while the male students are seated on the floor and get obscenities shouted at them.

Then there's #KillAllMen and the lovely woman who runs the Femitheist.net blog, with wonderful humanitarian ideas such as "National Castration Day" and the idea of reducing men down to 1-10% of the population in order to achieve "true equality".

While I think the term "feminazi" is pretty dated, and feels extra dirty for being coined by Rush Limbaugh, it's not a comparison that came out of nowhere.


_________________
I'm bored out of my skull, let's play a different game. Let's pay a visit down below and cast the world in flame.


Alladin
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 26 Dec 2015
Age: 675
Posts: 20
Location: Hell

26 Dec 2015, 1:40 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
]Ever hear of the SCUM manifesto? I'd like to think of it as as the ramblings of a madwoman not taken seriously by anyone, but there's apparently a play based on it touring here in sweden right now. As part of the presentation, female 7th graders are seated in comfy chairs and given candy, while the male students are seated on the floor and get obscenities shouted at them.

Then there's #KillAllMen and the lovely woman who runs the Femitheist.net blog, with wonderful humanitarian ideas such as "National Castration Day" and the idea of reducing men down to 1-10% of the population in order to achieve "true equality".

Wow, these women are crazy!



wilburforce
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,940

26 Dec 2015, 4:26 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Men who argue against the existence of a pay gap remind me of christian fundies and republicans who argue against the existence of climate change.


The severity of the pay gap is a central tenet of the feminist faith, while climate change is significantly more substantiated.

Christina Hoff Sommers on the subject: http://www.aei.org/publication/the-equa ... ity-check/


The New York Times, Time Magazine, and USA Today on the pay gap: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/upshot/the-pay-gap-is-because-of-gender-not-jobs.html?_r=0

http://time.com/105292/gender-wage-gap/

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/stubborn-pay-gap-is-found-in-nursing/

http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/there-is-a-salary-gap-even-when-women-pay-themselves/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2012/10/24/gender-pay-gap/1652511/



Wolfram87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,976
Location: Sweden

26 Dec 2015, 4:52 pm

From the times article:

Quote:
Occupations that most value long hours, face time at the office and being on call — like business, law and surgery — tend to have the widest pay gaps. That is because those employers pay people who spend longer hours at the office disproportionately more than they pay people who don’t, Dr. Goldin found. A lawyer who works 80 hours a week at a big corporate law firm is paid more than double one who works 40 hours a week as an in-house counsel at a small business.

Jobs in which employees can easily substitute for one another have the slimmest pay gaps, and those workers are paid in proportion to the hours they work.


I don't see anything gendered here. A woman putting in 80 hours a week at a corporate firm would earn the same as a man doing the same. It's entirely possible that men on average are more willing to put in those long hours than women on average are, but that's down to individual choices and not an injustice in either direction.


_________________
I'm bored out of my skull, let's play a different game. Let's pay a visit down below and cast the world in flame.


androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

26 Dec 2015, 5:24 pm

AR1500 wrote:
Social equality is not enough, these ultrafeminists want outright matriarchy.


8O God, no, not matriarchy! :-P

Kyle Katarn wrote:
... I hate the girls who win arguments by sheer power of obstinance, demand special treatment and whatnot. Those disgusting creatures should understand the world doesn't owe them a living because of their gender."

I think this is more the definition of a spoiled brat, male or female.

It really doesn't take much to stir up the anti-femiwhateverists around here. I wonder if men often feel frustrated with women and seek out the extremists to justify their angry feelings. I wonder if it weren't for sex would men have clubbed us all to death eons ago. Guess I can't know, but it feels that way sometimes.



AR1500
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 27 Oct 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 229
Location: Unknown

27 Dec 2015, 2:54 am

androbot01 wrote:
AR1500 wrote:
Social equality is not enough, these ultrafeminists want outright matriarchy.


8O God, no, not matriarchy! :-P

Kyle Katarn wrote:
... I hate the girls who win arguments by sheer power of obstinance, demand special treatment and whatnot. Those disgusting creatures should understand the world doesn't owe them a living because of their gender."

I think this is more the definition of a spoiled brat, male or female.

It really doesn't take much to stir up the anti-femiwhateverists around here. I wonder if men often feel frustrated with women and seek out the extremists to justify their angry feelings. I wonder if it weren't for sex would men have clubbed us all to death eons ago. Guess I can't know, but it feels that way sometimes.



As I have said about a MILLION TIMES BEFORE in case you forget to read, radical ideology is not egalitarian nor concerned with fairness for any and every individual! It is very much a social climbing strategy and the reason why men like me are calling out feminists on their shady behavior is that many of the more outspoken extreme feminists actively target autistic men(along with geek men) :!:
[Redacted: do not make personal attacks] Besides, modern feminism is conditioning women that it's okay for them to act like spoiled brats as this ideology has inculcated them with a sense of entitlement. I mean, they're only human but being female doesn't excuse this kind of behavior.



Last edited by Adamantium on 28 Dec 2015, 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.: Personal attack in violation of rule 1

androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

27 Dec 2015, 4:35 am

AR1500 wrote:
... radical ideology is not egalitarian nor concerned with fairness for any and every individual! It is very much a social climbing strategy and the reason why men like me are calling out feminists on their shady behavior is that many of the more outspoken extreme feminists actively target autistic men(along with geek men) :!:

I agree with the first part about radical ideology. Not sure about what shady behaviour you're referring to. But I don't support targeting autistic men for their geekiness.

Quote:
You're just another apologist thinking that you're going to be rewarded for being on the good side of radical feminism. Besides, modern feminism is conditioning women that it's okay for them to act like spoiled brats as this ideology has inculcated them with a sense of entitlement. I mean, they're only human but being female doesn't excuse this kind of behavior.

So are you saying all women act like spoiled brats because feminism has said it's okay. I'm no fan of radical or even everyday feminism, but you seem to be saying all women engage in "this kind of behaviour." Honestly, I think spoiled brattiness is gender neutral.