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AJisHere
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17 Feb 2016, 12:09 pm

eric76 wrote:
Capitalism brought you a lifestyle today that is better than that of royalty a few generations ago.


Assuming that's true (because for many it's not), what's your point? Not that quality of life means much if we're all dead, which is the direction things are headed when there's a profit motive to create an unlivable planet.


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17 Feb 2016, 1:45 pm

The world needs less irrationality, not more, but good luck trying to stop people from relishing it.


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Aristophanes
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17 Feb 2016, 1:50 pm

I think Donald Trump can't be elected because he's illegally here. I don't believe the section of Queens he was born in is truly sovereign U.S. soil and that the Dutch still own it making him a citizen of Holland-- and we all know Holland is a socialist country.



eric76
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17 Feb 2016, 1:53 pm

[quote="AJisHere"Not that quality of life means much if we're all dead, which is the direction things are headed when there's a profit motive to create an unlivable planet.[/quote]

It might help to look at reality rather than listen to the clowns pushing their agenda.

The reality is that the climate is about 5 F cooler than during the Holocene Climatic Optimum, about 9,000 years ago. That is the period when mankind was finally able to settle down instead of being nomadic hunters continually on the move trying to find enough to eat. That is when we started making our first baby steps toward civilization. I would argue that it is the warmer temperatures that permitted mankind to progress toward civilization.

What does warmer temperatures bring? It brings a more productive planet. Plants grow better in the warmth (that's why we were able to begin farming, after all).

It is a cooler climate that you should be terrified of, not a warmer climate. A cooler climate would bring more and more starvation and death by starvation as the Earth would become less and less productive. Just look at the small coolness of the period known as "The Little Ice Age". Just a little cooler weather brought about a great deal of hardship.

The scary thing about Global Warming is not that it might be happening, but that it might not be happening. When this interglacial period, the Holocene, ends and we slip back into another period of glaciation and temperatures drop dramatically. Starvation will follow and there will likely be major wars as mankind battles for the fewer and fewer natural resources available.

Rationally, you should fear cooling and welcome warming.



Aristophanes
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17 Feb 2016, 2:01 pm

eric76 wrote:
Rationally, you should fear cooling and welcome warming.

Either one brings disruption. Also, the inter-glacial maximum is a poor indicator, there's been a peak approx. every 40k-100k years during the ice age. That's like letting your coffee sit for an hour and comparing the heat to coffee fresh out of the pot; or better yet, comparing a single year's snowfall in California against an El Nino snowfall-- they aren't the same, not even close.



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17 Feb 2016, 2:09 pm

eric76 wrote:
Rationally, you should fear cooling and welcome warming.


Doggerland and Beringia would have qualms with that :P



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17 Feb 2016, 7:55 pm

I don't believe Hitler was 'evil', because I simply don't believe in objective morals. I don't agree with what he did and what similar political leaders do, but objectively I can't say what political leaders do is factually 'right' or 'wrong'.



CommanderKeen
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17 Feb 2016, 9:11 pm

I'm not convinced Hitler was who the media and Hollywood make him out to be. If you simply question the holocaust you get ridiculed. I have read how he went against the banking cartel and that's what got the allies to attack Germany. I'm not convinced 100% one way or another, but the fact that we can't question in and of itself raises questions.



Dox47
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17 Feb 2016, 9:18 pm

eric76 wrote:
Do you really want to reward criminals for not getting caught?

One way they can reduce their chances of getting caught is to kill all the witnesses.


Actually, I'm referring to a guaranteed minimum income, and to an interesting program where a city reduced crime by identifying the handful of people involved in the most violence, and paid them to behave. I just don't have the moral aversion to paying criminals not to commit crime, I just care if it's efficient or not.


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AJisHere
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17 Feb 2016, 11:53 pm

eric76 wrote:
It might help to look at reality rather than listen to the clowns pushing their agenda.

The reality is that the climate is about 5 F cooler than during the Holocene Climatic Optimum, about 9,000 years ago. That is the period when mankind was finally able to settle down instead of being nomadic hunters continually on the move trying to find enough to eat. That is when we started making our first baby steps toward civilization. I would argue that it is the warmer temperatures that permitted mankind to progress toward civilization.

What does warmer temperatures bring? It brings a more productive planet. Plants grow better in the warmth (that's why we were able to begin farming, after all).

It is a cooler climate that you should be terrified of, not a warmer climate. A cooler climate would bring more and more starvation and death by starvation as the Earth would become less and less productive. Just look at the small coolness of the period known as "The Little Ice Age". Just a little cooler weather brought about a great deal of hardship.

The scary thing about Global Warming is not that it might be happening, but that it might not be happening. When this interglacial period, the Holocene, ends and we slip back into another period of glaciation and temperatures drop dramatically. Starvation will follow and there will likely be major wars as mankind battles for the fewer and fewer natural resources available.

Rationally, you should fear cooling and welcome warming.


The scientific community overwhelmingly and emphatically disagrees with you. The people who know more about this topic than anyone else alive have found that what you're claiming is not the case, despite the fact they spend all their time testing, analyzing, trying to prove themselves wrong. They have failed to do so. Arguing the world is not getting warmer on average carries about as much credibility as arguing geocentricism.

But putting that aside, your argument hints at its own refutation.

The Holocene has indeed been a remarkably stable epoch. That stability is what has allowed civilization to flourish. It has allowed time for people to settle and expand communities, and to procure food and water. Civilization is predicated on it. Right now, we're quite possibly in a new epoch under which those conditions may not remain. Nearly all human beings live near water. Water levels are changing (floods and droughts). About one third of protein eaten by humans comes from the sea; oceanic ecosystems are collapsing (being extremely sensitive to even small changes). Agriculture requires specific climates and inputs that will cease to be present in many places with what may seem like a slight change in temperature.

You mention a difference of 5F. You know that's massive, right? That exceeds what the scientific community has determined would be catastrophic levels of climate change. Things getting a bit hotter doesn't mean they're better; it means an existential threat to humanity.

This is the reality we face. If the current way of doing things contributes to it, it has to end. If it is also exploitative and cruel, all the more reason to cast it aside.


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18 Feb 2016, 12:05 am

penis removal is a legitimate punishment for rape.

Free range parenting is a good thing.


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Spiderpig
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18 Feb 2016, 12:11 am

AJisHere wrote:
If the current way of doing things contributes to it, it has to end. If it is also exploitative and cruel, all the more reason to cast it aside.


That simply won't happen. Whatever the consequences are, we'll suffer them.


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AJisHere
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18 Feb 2016, 12:21 am

Spiderpig wrote:
That simply won't happen. Whatever the consequences are, we'll suffer them.


Well with that attitude, yeah.


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mr_bigmouth_502
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18 Feb 2016, 8:32 pm

It should be legal for me to defend my property, not just myself or my family, with deadly force. I know this is a widely accepted thing in the US, but I'd like to see it legalized here in Canada.


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Jacoby
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18 Feb 2016, 8:58 pm

Where do I start? :roll:



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19 Feb 2016, 6:31 am

I am not a lemming, sheep, or in a herd mentality. I think for myself. If people do not like it they can eat my shorts.