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Do you know that the God of the Bible doesn't exist?

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Do you know that the God of the Bible doesn't exist?
Yes 47%  47%  [ 47 ]
No 53%  53%  [ 52 ]
Total votes : 99

LKL
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21 Aug 2007, 1:31 pm

Anyone who spouts the 'human eye, therefore god" theory hasn't studied a lot of physiology or zoology. Our eyes are wired backwards - the 'blind spot' is where the axons of all of the neurons that connect to to the retinal cells dive down into the optic nerve. We wouldn't have blind spots if our eyes were just ennervated from behind, rather than in front - one would think that an all-knowing, all-powerful creator could have figured that out when he was making what is supposedly his most special creation.

Hawks and eagles see far better than humans, and squids have excellent eyesight (without blind spots) as well.



Ragtime
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21 Aug 2007, 1:34 pm

LKL wrote:
Anyone who spouts the 'human eye, therefore god" theory hasn't studied a lot of physiology or zoology. Our eyes are wired backwards - the 'blind spot' is where the axons of all of the neurons that connect to to the retinal cells dive down into the optic nerve. We wouldn't have blind spots if our eyes were just ennervated from behind, rather than in front - one would think that an all-knowing, all-powerful creator could have figured that out when he was making what is supposedly his most special creation.

Hawks and eagles see far better than humans, and squids have excellent eyesight (without blind spots) as well.


So, you're complimenting God's design of the eyes of birds and squid. Humans are also inferior to certain animals in countless other ways, yet man rules the planet, so those human disadvantages seem to be for some measure of balance in creation. He gave us the brains to design machines which are better than the best animals in nearly every catagory, i.e. vehicles faster than cheetahs, telescopes and microscopes better than any organic eye, etc.


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21 Aug 2007, 1:41 pm

Ragtime wrote:
yet man rules the planet


Rules ? In what way ? There are more flies, spiders, bacteria, roaches then there are humans and they will outlive the monkeys by eons. We don't rule s**t (that's the dung beetles)



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21 Aug 2007, 1:57 pm

LKL wrote:
Anyone who spouts the 'human eye, therefore god" theory hasn't studied a lot of physiology or zoology. Our eyes are wired backwards - the 'blind spot' is where the axons of all of the neurons that connect to to the retinal cells dive down into the optic nerve. We wouldn't have blind spots if our eyes were just ennervated from behind, rather than in front - one would think that an all-knowing, all-powerful creator could have figured that out when he was making what is supposedly his most special creation.

Hawks and eagles see far better than humans, and squids have excellent eyesight (without blind spots) as well.

You're assuming two things: One, that you know better than God, if he exists, how to design a human eye (how do you know there might have been a reason why it wasn't designed another way? Oh yea, that's right, because there isn't a God. Circular reasoning.) and two, that somehow, a less than 100% efficient design is somehow a "mistake."

and sigholdaccountlost, could you possibly come to your point in one post, instead of spreading your arguments over a page and a half?


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sigholdaccountlost
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21 Aug 2007, 2:09 pm

JonnyBGoode wrote:
LKL wrote:
Anyone who spouts the 'human eye, therefore god" theory hasn't studied a lot of physiology or zoology. Our eyes are wired backwards - the 'blind spot' is where the axons of all of the neurons that connect to to the retinal cells dive down into the optic nerve. We wouldn't have blind spots if our eyes were just ennervated from behind, rather than in front - one would think that an all-knowing, all-powerful creator could have figured that out when he was making what is supposedly his most special creation.

Hawks and eagles see far better than humans, and squids have excellent eyesight (without blind spots) as well.

You're assuming two things: One, that you know better than God, if he exists, how to design a human eye (how do you know there might have been a reason why it wasn't designed another way? Oh yea, that's right, because there isn't a God. Circular reasoning.) and two, that somehow, a less than 100% efficient design is somehow a "mistake."

and sigholdaccountlost, could you possibly come to your point in one post, instead of spreading your arguments over a page and a half?



Not really. Seeing as I require people to acknowledge the first point before moving onto the next.


But.....

If you think about, less than 100% efficiency i.e. perfection is a mistake, by defintion. With humans, there's the good ol' illogical original sin argument. So anyway, some animals are born blind and I mean, they're born with a non-functioning eye not that their eyes don't open till later. A perfect God would not be able to make mistakes ergo the God of the bible i.e. perfection incarnate, doesn't exist.


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Ragtime
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21 Aug 2007, 3:43 pm

sigholdaccountlost wrote:
JonnyBGoode wrote:
LKL wrote:
Anyone who spouts the 'human eye, therefore god" theory hasn't studied a lot of physiology or zoology. Our eyes are wired backwards - the 'blind spot' is where the axons of all of the neurons that connect to to the retinal cells dive down into the optic nerve. We wouldn't have blind spots if our eyes were just ennervated from behind, rather than in front - one would think that an all-knowing, all-powerful creator could have figured that out when he was making what is supposedly his most special creation.

Hawks and eagles see far better than humans, and squids have excellent eyesight (without blind spots) as well.

You're assuming two things: One, that you know better than God, if he exists, how to design a human eye (how do you know there might have been a reason why it wasn't designed another way? Oh yea, that's right, because there isn't a God. Circular reasoning.) and two, that somehow, a less than 100% efficient design is somehow a "mistake."

and sigholdaccountlost, could you possibly come to your point in one post, instead of spreading your arguments over a page and a half?



Not really. Seeing as I require people to acknowledge the first point before moving onto the next.


But.....

If you think about, less than 100% efficiency i.e. perfection is a mistake, by defintion. With humans, there's the good ol' illogical original sin argument. So anyway, some animals are born blind and I mean, they're born with a non-functioning eye not that their eyes don't open till later. A perfect God would not be able to make mistakes ergo the God of the bible i.e. perfection incarnate, doesn't exist.


Finite and inscrutibly odd do not equate to design flaws. He didn't make man with wings, but that's not an "oops". He just chose not to. And you're also relying on the assumption that man has, with his finite mind, and indeed finite understanding of organic design, determined what perfection is. Biologists' limited data therefore precludes your conclusion on the design of man. ...Much the same as the assertion that God definitely doesn't exist is precluded by our finite knowledge of the universe.


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Last edited by Ragtime on 21 Aug 2007, 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Chosen_One
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21 Aug 2007, 6:28 pm

As I said in the other thread 'Have you read the Bible' Christians claim that they have to be right because the bible says so, and therefore everyone else is wrong. To quote JohnnyBGoode, 'circular logic', because God exists, he created us, therefore we are perfect beings created from a perfect being. BUT as has been pointed out by Ragtime etc we are not perfect, so therefore their god f*cked up. To me, as has ALSO been said before, the bible is just folklore and stories, and God was invented by stone-age man around campfires just to stop them getting the heebee-geebees during those long lonely nights on guard duty. Then, obviously the word spread that there MAY have been something, and beliefs were refined and amongst peoples of a particular area, combined so that they followed the one similar god. That didn't mean EVERYONE believed in their god, because other tribes and large areas had created their own gods and myths. It's just that with what was to become the Christian bible, some of these myths were written down in whatever form, and were passed down until the bible was collated in the 4th century CE. Christians can believe in their god, same as muslims can believe in Allah etc, but they should NOT be going all out to convert the masses like they did in the crusades just because they think they are the only ones that are right. That is just completely cocked-up logic.

I suppose when it all comes down to it, you guys HAVE to believe in something, because what else HAVE you got?


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21 Aug 2007, 7:15 pm

LKL wrote:
the 'blind spot' is where the axons of all of the neurons that connect to to the retinal cells dive down into the optic nerve. We wouldn't have blind spots if our eyes were just ennervated from behind

We do have those blind spots because of the optic nerves, but the brain compensates that somehow and we don't notice them.


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21 Aug 2007, 7:25 pm

Ragtime wrote:
sigholdaccountlost wrote:
JonnyBGoode wrote:
LKL wrote:
Anyone who spouts the 'human eye, therefore god" theory hasn't studied a lot of physiology or zoology. Our eyes are wired backwards - the 'blind spot' is where the axons of all of the neurons that connect to to the retinal cells dive down into the optic nerve. We wouldn't have blind spots if our eyes were just ennervated from behind, rather than in front - one would think that an all-knowing, all-powerful creator could have figured that out when he was making what is supposedly his most special creation.

Hawks and eagles see far better than humans, and squids have excellent eyesight (without blind spots) as well.

You're assuming two things: One, that you know better than God, if he exists, how to design a human eye (how do you know there might have been a reason why it wasn't designed another way? Oh yea, that's right, because there isn't a God. Circular reasoning.) and two, that somehow, a less than 100% efficient design is somehow a "mistake."

and sigholdaccountlost, could you possibly come to your point in one post, instead of spreading your arguments over a page and a half?



Not really. Seeing as I require people to acknowledge the first point before moving onto the next.


But.....

If you think about, less than 100% efficiency i.e. perfection is a mistake, by defintion. With humans, there's the good ol' illogical original sin argument. So anyway, some animals are born blind and I mean, they're born with a non-functioning eye not that their eyes don't open till later. A perfect God would not be able to make mistakes ergo the God of the bible i.e. perfection incarnate, doesn't exist.


Finite and inscrutibly odd do not equate to design flaws. He didn't make man with wings, but that's not an "oops". He just chose not to. And you're also relying on the assumption that man has, with his finite mind, and indeed finite understanding of organic design, determined what perfection is. Biologists' limited data therefore precludes your conclusion on the design of man. ...Much the same as the assertion that God definitely doesn't exist is precluded by our finite knowledge of the universe.

I agree with that we have a finite and limited knowledge of the universe, that's why we cannot know for sure in scientific terms wether God does exists or not, or if he/she (androgyn maybe) is like many people think or any other way, we don't know for sure, and probably we will never know or at least for a long period of time, all we can do is make speculations but without getting a solid evidence.


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21 Aug 2007, 8:25 pm

The_Chosen_One wrote:
Christians can believe in their god, same as muslims can believe in Allah etc, but they should NOT be going all out to convert the masses like they did in the crusades just because they think they are the only ones that are right. That is just completely cocked-up logic.

Christians are told to share their faith with others. What is completely cocked-up logic is to think we're trying to do it at the point of a sword like the crusades. Unless you have some sort of persecution complex?


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21 Aug 2007, 8:33 pm

JonnyBGoode wrote:
Christians are told to share their faith with others.

Yeah, but the question is when and where that is appropriate and when and where is not?


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Ragtime
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21 Aug 2007, 8:39 pm

The_Chosen_One wrote:
As I said in the other thread 'Have you read the Bible' Christians claim that they have to be right because the bible says so, and therefore everyone else is wrong.

That's not what they claim. They have a personal, spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ, and are led daily through life by God's Holy Spirit. This relationship and leading are quite real, and occur in the present -- every day. That is quite a better reason than "because the Bible says so".


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21 Aug 2007, 8:43 pm

I have heard Christians using back-handed comments like 'he doesn't believe, so he's going to hell' or 'we'll pray for him or her, then they'll see the light' or even coming out and quoting scripture at the least appropriate moment, trying to make anyone around them who doesn't believe feel guilty for NOT being Christian. Now if that isn't conversion, even underhanded conversion, then what is. Laying guilt trips on non-believers is no way to run a railroad. If I have a 'persecution complex' as you put it, isn't it any wonder with you holier-than-thou bible-bashers telling me that I'm damned because of my own beliefs. Keep to your own lot, but leave the rest of us alone.


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Last edited by The_Chosen_One on 21 Aug 2007, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ragtime
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21 Aug 2007, 8:44 pm

The_Chosen_One wrote:
I suppose when it all comes down to it, you guys HAVE to believe in something, because what else HAVE you got?


Well, sex, power, and money spring to mind, which the devil is usually more than willing to use at various times to coax us away from the faith. It's all garbage compared to God, of course.


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Last edited by Ragtime on 21 Aug 2007, 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ragtime
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21 Aug 2007, 8:49 pm

greenblue wrote:
JonnyBGoode wrote:
Christians are told to share their faith with others.

Yeah, but the question is when and where that is appropriate and when and where is not?


Heh heh, that's ALWAYS been the question. That's why they killed Jesus, when He wouldn't recant, and that's why they very torturously killed some of His apostles, when they wouldn't recant. We are always allowed to share our faith, so long as we keep it out of sight and out of mind. When we don't, history shows it can earn our executions.


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Last edited by Ragtime on 21 Aug 2007, 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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21 Aug 2007, 8:52 pm

Where is the "The Question is Pointless" selection?


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