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Wolfram87
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01 Jun 2019, 12:44 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Image


"Children are more susceptible to my BS than adults are! It's great!"


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VegetableMan
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01 Jun 2019, 1:07 pm

Sounds like a deconstruction of biology, intended to alleviate any discomfort these terms might cause people. Yikes! Welcome to the brave new word!


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magz
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01 Jun 2019, 1:14 pm

I find a lot of other topics in biology causing much more discomfort... I still remember all the stuff about tape worms and other human parasites in 4th grade. That was uncomfortable!


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Wolfram87
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01 Jun 2019, 1:21 pm

Next we're gonna give history the same treatmen; let's teach world history, but never once use the words "war" or "genocide" because those are just upsetting.


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01 Jun 2019, 1:22 pm

Perhaps instead of calling them "human parasites," we could change the term to "human bodily guests." There, that's better. That doesn't make me uncomfortable at all. And no more pictures of these nasties in textbooks, either. We should replace them with colorful cartoons that make them look jovial and pleasant.


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magz
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01 Jun 2019, 1:38 pm

I think we should stop using the word "human". Distinguishing our speciest suggests superiority, other species may feel uncomfortable.


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02 Jun 2019, 2:46 am

VegetableMan wrote:
I'm all for fighting transphobia, but this is just beyond absurd. So, now we're going to teach children that there is no male or female anatomy?

Image


Okay, now this is just ridiculous. Anatomy of all things is male or female, aside from some rare exceptions (and those rare exceptions should also be taught about properly; I was an adult by the time I knew that was possible.) Gender, or better term, gender indentity, isn't just male or female, there are others, but most of the time anatomy is male or female.



magz
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02 Jun 2019, 2:56 am

Fireblossom wrote:
Okay, now this is just ridiculous. Anatomy of all things is male or female, aside from some rare exceptions (and those rare exceptions should also be taught about properly; I was an adult by the time I knew that was possible.) Gender, or better term, gender indentity, isn't just male or female, there are others, but most of the time anatomy is male or female.

Totally agree.
By the way, I wonder. I know some gay&lesbian people irl but none trans. But quite a lot of my friends are more or less like "oh, that's my biological sex but it doesn't really define me apart from reproduction". To some degree, I'm like this myself. We don't call this attitude trans, it's not even viewed as LGBT-related in my culture.


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ASPartOfMe
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02 Jun 2019, 3:19 am

Semi off topic but if this is accepted for all the programmers Autistic or not this will be very lucrative. It is going to be a lot of work changing every program with a male and female option to 70+ options.


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02 Jun 2019, 3:30 am

Not really possible because gender is social construct, that is specifically what it is. But a lot of people confuse gender for sex...like female, male an in-between are sexes, male and female they way a lot of people talk about it are genders which are a social construct. Like if its not a social construct why would people specify blue for a boy and pink for a girl. There is no biological basis for that, its a social construct there is no biology that says girls prefer pink and boys prefer blue...that is a social construct. And so many kids have gotten reassignment surgery as babies...for all you know if you're a male you might have had more female parts at birth, and if your a girl you may have had more male like part that they operated on to make it more feminine. But you may never know if that was the case.....as parents during that time that went into the early 90s where advised not to tell their child if they had any kind of reassignment surgery. Just a thing to ponder.

Essentially for all anyone my age knows, they were born inbetween but had surgery as a baby to fix it to whether they looked more male or female down there and their parents were advised to never tell them and just raise them as the chosen gender.


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02 Jun 2019, 3:47 am

I mean seriously get on youtube and look up some videos about intersex people, its not even that uncommon. Saw a thing that showed two intersex girs who were sisters they as they both identify as female but had essentially vaginas but also fully formed testicales on the inside so I mean they weren't really males or females, they didn't have penises and they didn't really have vaginas.They had something that was similar to both but not quite either one. Their parents opted not to operate on them as babies but support them if they choose any operations in the future.


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magz
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02 Jun 2019, 4:46 am

I definitely prefer wikipedia over youtube when searching for information... that's an interesting piece I found:

Quote:
In extreme cases of micropenis, there is barely any shaft, and the glans appears to sit almost on the pubic skin. From the 1960s until the late 1970s, it was common for sex reassignment and surgery to be recommended. This was especially likely if evidence suggested that response to additional testosterone and pubertal testosterone would be poor. With parental acceptance, the boy would be reassigned and renamed as a girl, and surgery performed to remove the testes and construct an artificial vagina. This was based on the now-questioned idea that gender identity was shaped entirely from socialization, and that a man with a small penis can find no acceptable place in society.
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropenis

Sometimes I'm glad that in my country people were simply too poor for this and had different problems to deal with.


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The_Walrus
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02 Jun 2019, 3:47 pm

[Mod]

WrongPlanet has a reputation (a slightly unfair one if you ask me, but perhaps I'm not the best judge) for being a hostile place for trans, genderqueer, and intersex people.

I appreciate that most in this thread are trying to come to terms with issues that they genuinely find unfamiliar and/or confusing and/or worrying. While some of the statements made have been mildly bigoted, this has generally not come from a place of hatred. It's just that this is a very complicated matter that it is easy to overlook some nuance. I am pleased that most people have shown some

Please note that WrongPlanet has a rule against homophobia which has traditionally expanded to cover all queer identities. Consequently, please note the following are broadly not allowed:

- Suggesting that there are only two genders and that other gender identifies are not real.
- Suggesting that queer identities are a form of attention seeking or a "first world problem".
- Deny the existence of trans people, or say that someone's gender is defined by their assigned sex at birth or their genitalia.

These are all matters where there is strong scientific consensuses against the topic at hand. Again, I completely appreciate that it isn't always possible to stay up-to-date with every scientific matter and that not knowing about every study doesn't make you a transphobe or anything like that - but nonetheless, be as careful not to express transphobic opinions as you would be to not express homophobic or racist opinions.

We don't want to censure discussion and prevent people from learning. So to be absolutely clear, you are allowed to do the following:

- Ask questions about a matter.
- State your understanding, particularly while acknowledging the limits of your understanding.
- Provide evidence to challenge other people's beliefs (but these sources should themselves not be overtly bigoted; scientific papers will always be fine, but be aware of the amount of commentary added in any articles you link to).

This list is non-exhaustive.

Please also try to be mindful of your language and consider context for your remarks. As always, conversations are likely to be more constructive if you assume good faith on the part of people who you disagree with.



ASPartOfMe
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02 Jun 2019, 6:07 pm

This post is kind of un Autistic in that it is not about logic but my feelings about the topic.

I usually stay away from this and related topics because of my lack of knowledge and that I am conflicted on the matter. As a baby boomer while there was sex change operations and “drag queens” it was considered rare. A part of me does feel like where and why did all of this seemingly come out of nowhere. There is a strong temptation to view it as a trendy fad. On the other hand as an autistic who was undiagnosed until age 55 I am more than sympathetic to the concept that something can be real, fairly widespread and unknown. And it is hurtful to often read how autism is an over-diagnosed trendy fad.

Assuming this is real but hidden making it right is going to go way beyond bathrooms and male and female sports teams and records. This is going to require way more societal and personal adjustments than feminism, racial integration and autistic rights. This goes to the core of who we are as humans. Radical an overused word seems inadequate for this.

Older people often love to preach, b***h and interfere with young peoples progress. I am not above that. Young people in frustration often say time to get out of the way old man. While that thinking is offensive and ageist I for one am very happy to get the hell out of the way and let the millennials and Generation Z sort this one out.

Carry on.


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03 Jun 2019, 11:26 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
This post is kind of un Autistic in that it is not about logic but my feelings about the topic.

I usually stay away from this and related topics because of my lack of knowledge and that I am conflicted on the matter. As a baby boomer while there was sex change operations and “drag queens” it was considered rare. A part of me does feel like where and why did all of this seemingly come out of nowhere. There is a strong temptation to view it as a trendy fad. On the other hand as an autistic who was undiagnosed until age 55 I am more than sympathetic to the concept that something can be real, fairly widespread and unknown. And it is hurtful to often read how autism is an over-diagnosed trendy fad.

Assuming this is real but hidden making it right is going to go way beyond bathrooms and male and female sports teams and records. This is going to require way more societal and personal adjustments than feminism, racial integration and autistic rights. This goes to the core of who we are as humans. Radical an overused word seems inadequate for this.

Older people often love to preach, b***h and interfere with young peoples progress. I am not above that. Young people in frustration often say time to get out of the way old man. While that thinking is offensive and ageist I for one am very happy to get the hell out of the way and let the millennials and Generation Z sort this one out.

Carry on.


It seems more like regression than progress, if we're taking about deconstructing biology. If the end game, here, is to do away with male and female labels altogether, it appears like the left is fast becoming as anti-science as the right.


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03 Jun 2019, 11:28 am

If gender is a social construct, I find it weird that we have transgendered people.


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