The appeal of online Incel communities to autistic men

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Oh I wasn't getting involved in it I didn't think, I was just curious .

I don't believe that all women cheat on beta-males, but I believe almost all women want beta-males. That doesn't mean most will cheat, but most will reject beta males for sure or break up with them because if they are beta-males.

Does that make me 'red pill'?

I guess I have discussed things like this with my gf, when it comes to people in relationships we know, but she never mentioned terms like red pill or MGTOW, so we didn't discuss those terms.

And when looking up these pill definitions and behaviors, every link and website has to go into some big technical philosophical comparison to the movie The Matrix. Is it possible for links and articles to talk about these things without constantly going on philosophical rants from a sci-fi movie?

This might be a spicy question but - if it's largely NT's talking about NT dating woes, do you think they might be talking past us a bit?

A large part of what we're trying to sort out (just here on WP) is the wreckage around us, and in turn not to get wrecked ourselves by walking right into other people's machinations. With respect to being on the spectrum that's something that hits us reliably.

My own take on at least the portions of MGTOW I pay attention to - there are some people I find worth listening to, particularly ThinkingApe, and huMan to the degree that he details his choice to preserve his life as an intellectual and creative from being stamped out... effectively by normies. I find myself in a position where so much of my life is holding my right to personal autonomy rather than letting the crowd gaslight me into telling me how many fingers it deserves to have in my life just for being there. in a way I like the side of it that's something more of a softer / less sarcastic version of what Aaron Clarey does - ie. questions of how intelligent people navigate the world without becoming abysmally depressed by what they see around them (or taking it unflinchingly in doses for the sake of getting it through their system).

Unfortunately, there are many resources which discuss "red pill," "incel," and "MGTOW" ideology.

Being autistic makes it worse, actually. Believing in an isolationist ideology----makes you more isolated.

Nothing wrong with "personal autonomy." Something wrong with ideologies based upon false premises, about theories which do not take into account "real life."

Which particular theories and premises?

There's the 20-80 thing----where, allegedly, 20% of the men "get" 80% of the ladies.

There's all this Greek Letter crap.

There are many notions out there----wherein the "jocks" get all the chicks, and the "nerds" are left behind.

There's this theory about "instinct" making women want a "provider" and a "protector." This is seen as absolutely ironclad, thus keeping us "nerds," "geeks," etc. from ever finding love.

I just feel that we are victimized by "social science" studies and theories emanating from them.

You're a very smart man, Techstepgeneration. I can't see why intelligent women wouldn't go for you.

But you don't see a lot of women with 'nerdy guys' though compared to the more 'jock' types, so is it true then, going by what you see in couples?

Au Contraire!

I do see many "nerdy" guys with pretty women.

I'm a pretty "nerdy" guy who doesn't have really good social skills. I forget birthdays, and don't do all the "social graces. Yet I've done okay. I'm also short and a little chubby.

I do feel like, when a girl is in high school, they tend to like "jock" types. When they get older, though, their tastes become broader.

I never liked jocks. My friends didn’t, either. We were more into angsty poets and those who thought that they could play the guitar or sing.

I hated sports.

I'd need to split some of that out.

The sexual market place theory (ie. marketability based on sexual dimorphism - sperm are cheap, putting nine months into cultivating a baby and taking care of the baby afterward clearly isn't) seems like it's something that's just there and there's very little that can be done about it since it's almost reflexive on identities.

What I think a lot of guys are complaining about - modern day dating apps have a way of working where women get buried in requests (including lots of raunchy bit pics) where they want to get off the site as fast as they can, and then the guys get crickets because some guys just mailbomb anyone with a vagina and crowd them out. The other thing is that you can't just show pictures of your life and get very far, it has to be Instagram style self-marketing. If what you are or what you have to offer doesn't translate into exciting photographs well you're out.

Where I don't know about this stuff is the supremacy of the six 6's - ie. six foot tall, six figure income, six pack abs, six inches, I can't remember the rest... one of the remainders I think referred to cars or something... I've seen some very odd matches. We have an in-law who never really made it anywhere on his own, like forging knives as a hobby but really wasn't doing anything, was also one of those people who you could count on - when asked for help with anything - to disappear, and he's married to a neurologist and to that end 'they' (ie. her salary) have money, he clearly married up but it's hard to tell what went into that. I'd also suggest - even if we have higher levels of permanent singlehood than we have in the past or higher numbers of people not having children, it still seems like at least half the people out there are pair-bonding in some manner, and again I know enough married couples to know it's still happening and some of the husbands and wives could be close to six-figure income but most are below it, some below fifty.

It's a mixed bag. Some of the stuff in there is content that's hard to deny that people wish wasn't true and stake their public identities and morality on denying (they've come to the conclusion that if it's in nature and it's immoral then it shouldn't exist therefor pretending it's not there makes one a good person), other pieces seem to maybe be for some of these NT guys who are relatively attractive but insecure and they want to be the guys walking into the club, chatting up whatever girl they want, taking her home, etc., sort of like what PUA used to be but they're trying to do some kind of materialist self-actualization, ie. social climbing plus, I think that's where the six 6's come in, it's the particular women they want to have relations with and that's where it's interesting to hear how things are working for people who want to live that kind of life but none of that's for me - I already have more than a full time job, I don't need another full time job on top of that and that sort of dating and making sure you have the expensive loft downtown, super-nice car, wearing $1000 clothes, etc., to me that would be so hollow, miserable, life-consuming in the effort, it's like deciding that I want to work 100 hrs per week for the rest of my life as CEO somewhere.

What I think benefits guys on the spectrum is being able to figure out how much of it is just how the dating world is, how much of it is ASD, how much of it is just them or their preferences (the guy might be too smart, too 'different', too anything really even without being unattractive where he's just not going to find a lot of good matches).

I think most of the interesting conversations, for me at least, revolve around the degree to which society pushes courtship, stigmatizes singlehood, something I brought up a couple years ago when this thread was first spawned - the dangling promises of success = sex, which is something society can't promise (it's worse than getting kids to believe in Santa Clause as I think this by itself causes mid-life crises of sorts that wouldn't have been there if they just would have been told the truth, just that capitalism can't whip them quite as hard if they get the impression that they're slaving away for a wage which is questionable whether it makes up the difference), there's a lot that goes into this that I think looms a lot larger in terms of massive social grifts and dominance plays than whether or not people are getting cake.

I feel like "luck" plays a big role in all this, actually.

But these "incel" ideologies do a disservice to men; men "give up," and they adopt a negative slant on things. Evidence presented to the contrary is thrown right back at them (who present the evidence) with ideological justifications and excuses.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 23 May 2022, 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I hate to say it but intelligence rarely helps anyone date.

I had a friend, Romanian guy who liked to produce trance music. Became a certified Ableton instructor. Guy has a 150 IQ, also really good social skills to the point that he can get along with just about anyone. He finally did find a long-term partner but it took him forever.

I've also heard all kinds of stories even from women who had women friends who they said were effectively 10's (they might have said it slightly more tactfully but I don't remember how they phrased it) and their friends were also super-intelligent, to where when a guy came up and talked to them he'd leave the moment he heard who was in there. I've had similar problems. It also doesn't help that I'm 42, living at home with my parents, and working my arse off to be here but the best way I can say it - I got screwed steadily by employers from the moment I left college in my mid 20's and it hasn't let up.

It can, truthfully, be difficult for me to tell how much of what's happening 'out there' to other people is completely different to the oddities of my own life experience but I keep hearing a lot of the same things from a lot of the same places, and I have a geek streak for sociology, trying to understand what various social problems tell us about the future, what's possible in terms of human interaction, human innovation, future societies, etc.. I have little faith that I'm going to learn something that would change my relationship status (I'm about 90% sure I'll be single till the day I'm off this earth) but I do want to know which way the wind is blowing, where the social currents are, and what kinds of strange new things I might run into at my next work place or in a few months just going to the store and getting food or taking a walk. I similarly want to know whether it's time to start buying survival guides and rations, ie. if the decadence has gone far enough off the rails that the system I'm in can't be counted on anymore.

As far as how I see myself and my social interactions with the opposite sex - people see hair, skin, and eyes, they don't see me. Most of the nasty responses or the 'How dare you be anywhere near me!' that I get is by attractive women who are likely used to having problems with guys who are different and I try to ignore it but the overall impression I get - no one's going to come close enough to me to get to know me because there's nothing 'flashy' that would tell anyone that I'm high status, and I'm debating whether I'd want to fix that even if I could (its clearly a good filter but maybe a little too powerful - ie. I'm not quite sure how I'd signal someone who I'd want to). The overall impression I've gotten though, a bit like someone else was saying a page or two back, I get the sense that who I am inside literally can't matter because it's not worth anyone's time to see what's in there - ie. if it doesn't prove itself five seconds it might as well not exist. Also, to be fair, a lot of the people who'd make it so that it doesn't exist couldn't see it, couldn't process it, this is again that place where high intelligence doesn't make a person easily relatable rather I think two things happen at once: 1) the dating pool shrinks and 2) there are few if any good external markers for intelligence and character for intelligent people to meet each other.

Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 23 May 2022, 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

You seem to be a person who "gets around." A cosmopolitan person.

You know this guy, and you know that guy. You have many stories to tell. And I'm sure you could charm the ladies with those stories.

This might mean that you go around in "social circles."

I've never gone around in "social circles." I've arrived in relationships in sometimes weird ways at times.

I believe it helps that I'm a relatively "plain-spoken" person, and don't really "intellectualize" much at first meeting. I actually believe this has hampered me somewhat, though. I really want to be known as someone who is "intelligent." That I am not somewhat gnaws at me.

I believe the WORST thing one can do is intellectualize and try to make scientific sense out of the thing called "love." Once you rely on studies, on "man-woman ratios," and things like that, you're dead in the water.

I'm thinking maybe a "hybrid" presentation might be good-----"intellectual," but plain-spoken.

I sense that "luck" hasn't been on your side, either.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 23 May 2022, 6:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Well, you're just dating now. If you let a woman marry you, and you forget her birthday or your anniversary, remember: hell has no fury like a woman scorned! Which means your priceless stamp or baseball card collection will be destroyed with no guilty conscience on your wife's part, and you'll sleep on the couch for a week. Because feminism.

That's why I made future suicide plans as soon as I learned that getting married was a standard social norm. In fact, my parents' friends told me when I was a kid: "today, you obey your parents; when you grow up, you're going to obey your wife". That's when I embraced Patrick Henry's (1775) mantra: "Give me liberty or give me death!" Hence the suicide.

Last edited by Aspie1 on 23 May 2022, 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm actually married.....

It's a pain in the butt----but it has its good points.

I certainly wouldn't kill myself over the prospect of marriage.

This is sort of where the invasion of sharp-elbows being sharp-minds, social climbing, etc. comes into play as well.

I don't have any advanced degrees, just my bachelors.

The meat of those places is social and economic achievement. I know where I am - it's not there.

What you have outside of that is spiritual circles and what not, and I've found those places to be very...well...silver.

The sense I'm getting is that the mainstream culture is vacuuming up anything it will accept and spitting out anything it can't understand.

I'd like to clarify though - by putting the examination on my relationship life though I hope we're not evading points I made earlier about reflexive interactions between agents and biological realities. A lot of stuff that MGTOW and red pill talk about, mixed in with the chaff, is stuff that happens to be true under the surface but it's the sort of thing that people really don't like and for the entire time I grew up to adulthood I had teachers, authority figures, etc. trying to feed me saccharine and telling me that all sorts of high platonic ideals were truisms about reality and I never saw what they were saying playing out - not with me or anyone else really. What maybe helps push me in this direction is I also have never been treated better for holding popular beliefs, ie. if you're 'weird' in any way that part of the social contract (ie. virtue signaling) is already roasted and when one understands that it's better to just stick to what's true because it's the only thing you can figure might stand a chance of preserving your life or future - even if it can be depressing news at times.