Sick of extreme right views

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CockneyRebel
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30 Aug 2022, 10:03 pm

I think that being Pro-Life is a sensible view. It means that life will be preserved.

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DW_a_mom
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31 Aug 2022, 4:06 am

CockneyRebel wrote:

I think that being Pro-Life is a sensible view. It means that life will be preserved.

It should, but the reality is that the way it is politically applied in the USA is different.

Pro-life should be anti-death penalty.
Pro-life should allow a mother's life to be saved if a fetus isn't viable.
Pro-life should should want qualify healthcare for everyone regardless of income or immigration status.
Pro-life should be willing to work to reduce high infant and maternal mortality rates.

In the USA, pro-life politics does not mean any of the above. And living, breathing, people die because of it.

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Tim_Tex
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31 Aug 2022, 5:53 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:

shlaifu wrote:

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:

Well actually someone who makes 30,000 a year does not have to pay long-term capital gains and dividend taxes.The taxes on capital gains and dividends are bracketed also with the super rich paying up to about 23 percent in capital gains and dividend taxes.

In other words: if you work yourself, you pay more taxes on your wages than if you profit off other peoples' work.

at least 50 percent of Americans dont pay any federal income taxes when counting for transfers.Also millionaires and billionaires and the top 10 percent pay most of the taxes in this country.Poor people dont really pay federal income taxes but billionaires do for the most part.Have you ever got a job from a poor person?Thats why we need Reaganomics forever.Someone who works at McDonalds making min wage pays less taxes than a someone in the one percent living off of McDonalds stock in the form of dividends.Poor people need to start paying federal income taxes and not getting as much back at tax day.The lower-middle class and working class and McJob workers needs to pay more federal income taxes.The upper middle class needs a big tax cut off of our taxes.

Your Reaganomics amounts to giving a hotdog to one dog and expecting him to share it with the others. Trickle down economics has done nothing but transfer the wealth of millions of Americans upward, leaving those below more and more impoverished. The fact that America's middle class flourished at a time when the super rich were heavily taxed and organized labor ensured a good wage and benefits should tell you Reagan's voodoo economics since has been a failure.
And no poor person has ever provided anyone with a job? Every hour put in at a workplace, and every consumer purchase, grows the economy, meaning that that poor person has helped along the way.

Reagan was very Trump-like when he was governor of California. He supported gun control, but only because the Black Panthers were doing armed citizens' patrols (Mulford Act). There was an incident where he called certain African leaders "monkeys" because they supported the PRC over Taiwan (still ruled by Mao Tse-Tung and Chiang Kai-Shek, respectively). And of course, the "welfare queens" remark in his 1976 campaign.

He was less so during his presidency, but all the Cold War stuff took far more precedence over anything else.

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Dox47
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31 Aug 2022, 8:19 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

Pro-life should be anti-death penalty.
Pro-life should should want qualify healthcare for everyone regardless of income or immigration status.

No, and you should know better. Belief that an unborn child is a person with rights, including not to be arbitrarily killed, in no way conflicts with the belief in a judicially applied death penalty for particularly heinous crimes, nor does it imply support of state health care. Just a terrible argument.

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funeralxempire
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31 Aug 2022, 10:51 pm

Dox47 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

We've certainly had posters brag about their political leanings being largely motivated by their spite for others.

Decades of naked contempt and gaslighting has a tendency to bring that out in people.

Don't get me wrong, I empathize even if I don't sympathize. I'm quite certain some of my stances are formed by similar pressures, I'm mostly saying emphasizing that aspect only serves to reinforce those same motives for one's opponents.

It's hard for a political system to accomplish any positives once spite is openly the motive for every action and stance.

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funeralxempire
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31 Aug 2022, 11:00 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:

I think that being Pro-Life is a sensible view. It means that life will be preserved.

Except for those women who die as a result of septic miscarriage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_ ... lappanavar

Her case is why Ireland finally legalized abortion.

If you look at outcomes in countries where access to abortion isn't allowed vs. where it is you'll see how denying that right costs lives. Deaths of people from septic shock or suicide are also lives that otherwise could have been preserved.

DW_a_mom
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01 Sep 2022, 1:13 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Pro-life should be anti-death penalty.
Pro-life should should want qualify healthcare for everyone regardless of income or immigration status.

To you, not to me.

Pro-life was based heavily, at the beginning, on a papal paper.

The Republican party picked up the issue hoping to get the Catholic vote.

What I wrote comes right out of that papal paper. Conception TO GRAVE. To forget all the parts following birth because they are inconvenient to one's personal politics is inappropriately picking and choosing. Just because the political movement has focused solely on the unborn for decades,. and just because they call themselves pro-life, does not mean they actually own the concept.

As a Catholic, who was heavily involved in young adult faith activities, I'm pretty well schooled on the theology.

More specifically, what I wrote was in response to someone talking about pro-life saving lives. Well, if a person wants to save lives, it takes a whole lot more than being politically against abortion.

I do know better. I know what pro-life, beyond what I call political pro-life, actually means.

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itscomplicated
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01 Sep 2022, 1:26 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Pro-life should be anti-death penalty.
Pro-life should should want qualify healthcare for everyone regardless of income or immigration status.

THIS

Biscuitman
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01 Sep 2022, 4:02 am

I am always a little confused at how the Amercan right wing talk a lot about freedoms and rights but some of the policies they cheer for are about removing peoples freedoms and rights

DW_a_mom
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01 Sep 2022, 8:48 pm

Biscuitman wrote:

I am always a little confused at how the Amercan right wing talk a lot about freedoms and rights but some of the policies they cheer for are about removing peoples freedoms and rights

That's because to them morality and value issues aren't personal choice. They have a "right" and a "wrong," usually as set by religion. So just like society agrees that theft is wrong, they believe society should agree that X (insert any gender or sexuality issue) is wrong, too.

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Dox47
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01 Sep 2022, 10:39 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

To you, not to me.

Pro-life was based heavily, at the beginning, on a papal paper.

But that does not constrain the pro life cause to Catholic dogma, one can be pro life without even being religious, even if the debate is usually framed as if it's purely a religious issue. Like I've said previously, all it comes down to is when the unborn fetus becomes a citizen with rights attached, everything else is just window dressing.

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Dox47
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01 Sep 2022, 10:40 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

An extraordinarily simplistic, and incorrect, view of the right, which is every bit as multifaceted as the left, just not as well represented in media and entertainment and so often portrayed as more monolithic than it in fact is.

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Dox47
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01 Sep 2022, 10:54 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Yeah, and then it gets into an argument over whose ox was gored first, and pretty soon people are bringing up stuff from hundreds of years ago that is completely disconnected to the current conflict. True story, an acquaintance of mine was once at some kind of "Free Palestine" type event in Seattle in the early 2000s when an older Slavic man stood up and interrupted the speaker in the middle of his recounting of the suffering of the Palestinians to berate him about how they didn't really have it so bad, Mongol hordes had slaughtered his people and driven them from their homelands... 800 years prior. Dude was still super mad about it too, according to my friend.

If I seem extra bitter, a lot of it comes from the changes that have come over my home state as more and more tech people moved here and changed the politics from moderate liberal to activist progressive, and have put me in a situation where every election season I have to seriously contemplate moving away and leaving all of my friends and family behind, it makes me want to inflict some reciprocal pain. If anything, my personal politics have moved a bit leftward as I've come to have a better understanding of certain economic issues and how corrupt certain industries are, but my tolerance for evangelical progressives has never been lower, and it wasn't high to begin with.

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DW_a_mom
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02 Sep 2022, 1:54 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

This was an answer to a very specific question, about people holding a particular set of seemingly inconsistent views, not intended to paint the entire right. I apologize for not being more clear about that. And, yes, obviously the answer is simplified.

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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 02 Sep 2022, 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

DW_a_mom
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02 Sep 2022, 1:56 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

To you, not to me.

Pro-life was based heavily, at the beginning, on a papal paper.

And your explanation does not constrain the reality of use of the term to the unborn.

I accept that different people use the term differently, but my use is hardly an outlier. You were trying to paint what i shared as wrong; it isn't. It just isn't how you believe the term should be used.

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Biscuitman
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02 Sep 2022, 2:51 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Biscuitman wrote:

I am always a little confused at how the Amercan right wing talk a lot about freedoms and rights but some of the policies they cheer for are about removing peoples freedoms and rights

Thanks. Makes a bit more sense

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