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Evidence of Israel's genocidal intentions toward Gaza?

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Mona Pereth
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01 Dec 2024, 10:22 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
You are falsely assuming they had the level of intelligence in Gaza that they had in Lebanon and Iran.

My point was not to assume they already had that level of intelligence, but rather that they could very easily have developed a very high level of intelligence very quickly, given their already very high level of control over all traffic into and out of Gaza. Moreover, that already very high level of control could easily be raised to 100% by simply blowing up the tunnels under the Philadelphi corridor, along the southern edge of Gaza.

Geographically speaking, and in terms of logistics, Israel has a much, much bigger advantage over Gaza than over Lebanon or Iran. Israel was already blockading Gaza's seaport and already had control over Gaza's electrical supply and Internet access. If Israel had begun its war by blowing up the tunnels under the Philadelphi corridor and then occupying that specific area, they could have had Gaza completely surrounded almost immediately.

Instead, Israel started by attacking northern Gaza, most likely in the hope that Egypt would eventually allow all the residents of Gaza to move into the Sinai peninsula. When that didn't happen, Israel went on its still-unending spree of killing civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure.

Israel's extreme logistical advantages over Gaza are the most likely reason why Israel underestimated Hamas's capabilities in the first place. Israel's previous overconfidence doesn't negate those advantages, however.


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kokopelli
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01 Dec 2024, 11:01 am

I don't consider either side in that to be clean.

That said, I have never been comfortable about the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, but as evil as their attack was, they still pale compared to many of their enemies in that region.


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slam_thunderhide
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01 Dec 2024, 12:31 pm

"The United Nations defines genocide as a crime that involves the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.”

Israel has gone beyond mere genocidal rhetoric. By now, their actions can clearly be seen to be genocidal, according to the UN’s definition.

Let’s see. Israel has destroyed most of the hospitals in Gaza. Israel has cut off food and electricity to Gaza. Israel has deliberately attacked and killed aid workers. When humanitarian aid does get through to Gaza, Israelis frequently destroy it. Israel has deliberately destroyed cultural sites that serve no military purpose. Western doctors who have returned from Gaza report frequently having to deal with children with gunshot wounds to the head. Israel has deliberately attacked and killed journalists to prevent them showing the world what is going on there. And Israel has recently announced that it will not allow Palestinians to return to their homes in northern Gaza.

It's pretty clear then that Israel’s action are designed to cause harm and death to Palestinian civilians, and to steal their land, and to erase their cultural memory.

Check the numbers.

Bosnian genocide: about 30,000 killed, and 1,000,000 displaced
Rohingya genocide: about 40,000 killed, and 700,000 displaced
Gaza? … Ignore the official death toll, which (although it is certainly still high) has somehow barely moved beyond about 40,000 for months on end. The Lancet, back in June 2024, estimated the death toll at 186,000. And most sources agree that the number of people displaced in Gaza is about 2 million.

If people want to say that what’s going on in Gaza is not their problem, then fine. But if they want to complain about the word ‘genocide’ being used, then they don’t really have a case – unless they also want to dispute the use of the word in the cases of Bosnia and the Rohingyas.



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01 Dec 2024, 12:42 pm

ShwaggyD wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:


I made no claims, in fact I mentioned my initial doubts and ended my post acknowledging the very real possibility that the letter was faked. I merely asked a legitimate question; what if it isn't. How much do you truly know about the history of Albert Pike and his role in freemasonry or Giuseppe Mazzini and his role as director of the Illuminati? Most people know little to nothing about these men and their roles in shaping the world during their lives.

I first read this over 20 years ago, and back then I recognized that there was a very real possibility that it was made up. Someone could have written it after WW2. That being said, knowing what I do about Pike and Mazzini, I also recognize that there is an equal chance that it is very real. Things are happening in todays world that appear to be following the blueprint laid out in the letter in regards to WW3. Trust me, I hope it is a fake but my own personal research has me thinking it very well might be a real plan after all.


I first saw people mentioning Albert Pike online about 15 years ago.

I have my own 'conspiracy theory' that I personally find more likely than the one you have shared about Albert Pike.

My theory is that ideas about people like Albert Pike are artificially boosted online to (among other things) distract from what Zionist extremists are doing right now.

Mona Pereth wrote:
To ShwaggyD:

If you want to discuss these (or any other) conspiracy theories further, please do so in a separate new thread devoted to that specific topic.

This thread is intended for discussion of the evidence for (and possibly against?) Israel's genocidal intent in Gaza.


I agree.

(And I hope I haven't derailed the thread further with my response to ShwaggyD above.)



Mona Pereth
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01 Dec 2024, 4:15 pm

kokopelli wrote:
I don't consider either side in that to be clean.

Nor do I. But one does not need to approve of Hamas in order to disapprove of Israel's extremely disproportionate response in Gaza (using weapons that have continued to be supplied by the U.S. government).

kokopelli wrote:
That said, I have never been comfortable about the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, but as evil as their attack was, they still pale compared to many of their enemies in that region.

Please start a separate thread if you want to discuss the long-ago incident involving the USS Liberty. Ditto if you want to detail the evils of Hamas (apart from the current war and its beginnings), or if you want to discuss the evils of various nearby Arab or Muslim governments and/or militias. This thread is about Israel's war on Gaza.


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Mona Pereth
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01 Dec 2024, 4:44 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:
"The United Nations defines genocide as a crime that involves the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.”

Israel has gone beyond mere genocidal rhetoric. By now, their actions can clearly be seen to be genocidal, according to the UN’s definition.

Let’s see. Israel has destroyed most of the hospitals in Gaza. Israel has cut off food and electricity to Gaza. Israel has deliberately attacked and killed aid workers. When humanitarian aid does get through to Gaza, Israelis frequently destroy it. Israel has deliberately destroyed cultural sites that serve no military purpose. Western doctors who have returned from Gaza report frequently having to deal with children with gunshot wounds to the head. Israel has deliberately attacked and killed journalists to prevent them showing the world what is going on there. And Israel has recently announced that it will not allow Palestinians to return to their homes in northern Gaza.

It's pretty clear then that Israel’s action are designed to cause harm and death to Palestinian civilians, and to steal their land, and to erase their cultural memory.

Check the numbers.

Bosnian genocide: about 30,000 killed, and 1,000,000 displaced
Rohingya genocide: about 40,000 killed, and 700,000 displaced
Gaza? … Ignore the official death toll, which (although it is certainly still high) has somehow barely moved beyond about 40,000 for months on end. The Lancet, back in June 2024, estimated the death toll at 186,000. And most sources agree that the number of people displaced in Gaza is about 2 million.

Thanks for reminding us of these details.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
If people want to say that what’s going on in Gaza is not their problem, then fine. But if they want to complain about the word ‘genocide’ being used, then they don’t really have a case – unless they also want to dispute the use of the word in the cases of Bosnia and the Rohingyas.

For those of us who live in the U.S.A., it is definitely our problem. The genocide is being carried out using weapons supplied by our government, with our tax dollars.


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Dox47
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01 Dec 2024, 5:13 pm

If Israel is intent on genocide, why haven't they done it yet? They could have done it with thermobarics in a weekend and presented it to the world as fait acclompi, what's the hold up?


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ShwaggyD
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01 Dec 2024, 5:37 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
To ShwaggyD:

If you want to discuss these (or any other) conspiracy theories further, please do so in a separate new thread devoted to that specific topic.

This thread is intended for discussion of the evidence for (and possibly against?) Israel's genocidal intent in Gaza.



Excuse me? Please don't talk to me like you are in charge of me or this forum; you are not.



Cornflake
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01 Dec 2024, 6:01 pm

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Ok well I'll tell you instead - if you want to discuss these (or any other) conspiracy theories further, please do so in a separate new thread devoted to that specific topic.

This thread is intended for discussion of the evidence for (and possibly against?) Israel's genocidal intent in Gaza.


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Mona Pereth
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Yesterday, 12:44 pm

Dox47 wrote:
If Israel is intent on genocide, why haven't they done it yet? They could have done it with thermobarics in a weekend and presented it to the world as fait acclompi, what's the hold up?

Two possible reasons I can think of offhand:

1) It would have been so obviously Nazi-like as to alienate even a lot of AIPAC supporters.

2) I'm not sure how accurate this is in terms of how Israeli politics works, but I've seen speculation that Netanyahu has been deliberately prolonging the war to keep himself in power.


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ASPartOfMe
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Yesterday, 2:12 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
If Israel is intent on genocide, why haven't they done it yet? They could have done it with thermobarics in a weekend and presented it to the world as fait acclompi, what's the hold up?

Two possible reasons I can think of offhand:

1) It would have been so obviously Nazi-like as to alienate even a lot of AIPAC supporters.

2) I'm not sure how accurate this is in terms of how Israeli politics works, but I've seen speculation that Netanyahu has been deliberately prolonging the war to keep himself in power.


For number 2 a lot of Israelis do think he is intentionally prolonging the war and that is why the remaining hostages have not come home.


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Dox47
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Yesterday, 9:21 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
1) It would have been so obviously Nazi-like as to alienate even a lot of AIPAC supporters.


So, you think the Israelis have some sort of plan to wipe out the Palestinian race, but drag it out? That seems less likely than "they're going after Hamas where they live and aren't being too careful about it" as an explanation for how they're conducting the war.


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Mona Pereth
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Today, 3:25 am

Here:

kokopelli wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
I don't consider either side in that to be clean.

Nor do I. But one does not need to approve of Hamas in order to disapprove of Israel's extremely disproportionate response in Gaza (using weapons that have continued to be supplied by the U.S. government).

kokopelli wrote:
That said, I have never been comfortable about the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, but as evil as their attack was, they still pale compared to many of their enemies in that region.

Please start a separate thread if you want to discuss the long-ago incident involving the USS Liberty. Ditto if you want to detail the evils of Hamas (apart from the current war and its beginnings), or if you want to discuss the evils of various nearby Arab or Muslim governments and/or militias. This thread is about Israel's war on Gaza.


In other words, you want to discuss this in a manner that is entirely devoid of any and all historical context.

Don't try to pretend that it wasn't Hamas who attacked Israel. Israel has the right to defend it self from Hamas aggression. Sure, Israel isn't completely pure, but Hamas is far less pure.


To the moderator(s): I would appreciate it very much if you could move the above-quoted post and all subsequent posts in this thread to the following new thread: Historical context of Israel's war on Gaza.

I will reply to some of those posts after they get moved.


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Mona Pereth
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Today, 10:55 am

Please see my reply in the separate new thread Israel-Hamas war meta-discussion (and please reply there, not here).


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Today, 11:08 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Some posts have been moved to a new thread here - Historical context of Israel's war on Gaza as requested above.


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