Zionists Did TERRIBLE Things To Establish A Jewish State

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Like I’ve said many times before, if those countries were currently engaged in the same horrific behavior that Israel is engaging in, I would say the same thing.

Israel had a chance to get hostages back with minimum civilian casualties. they clearly failed and must now stop and pay the price to be part of the international community. How exactly does your perspective differ from mine?

Given the many interactions we’ve had on this topic, I suspect you’re already aware of how our perspectives differ.

Seeing as how Israel is still engaging in terrible behavior, I’m not sure if now’s the time to talk about compensation. A lot more than compensation needs to happen, but first, they need to stop committing genocide.

Okay? That is not a defense of Israel. That is not an attempt to refute anything I said. That is trying to point out a double standard which I do not have. I condemn those nation states too. I hate basically all nation states on principle, but also for the specific horrible things they've done.
Do you expect me to thus be okay with Israel just because it is doing the usual typical horrible things that nation states do? To be fair, Israel is in many ways worse, in that it is openly, by Zionists' own definition, an ethno-religious supremacist state.


WHAT? How DARE you?? How DARE you impugn white South Africans??? White South Africans and the apartheid regime of South Africa were some of Israel's dearest, most reliable allies. Kindred spirits! What? Why the hell would Israel identify with the indigenous people who have lived in that country for 1000s of years? White South Africans were the real straight-shooters. White South Africans were one of the precious people on this Earth who understood, like Israel does, that the ONLY way for an ethnic group to be totally safe is for them to have a supremacist state where everyone else is a second-class citizen!
But in the 80s Israel BETRAYED white South Africans--one of their most reliable allies! White South Africans thought that they really had a special bond with Israelis! Were all those decades of mutual support for nothing? Israel just caved to peer pressure from its fake friends! Few peoples have understood and supported Israel with more passion and rapport than white South Africans! Yet Israel callously threw them to the wolves! Sadly, now those not-white South Africans are in power, and they hate Israel for NO REASON except that they HATE JEWS. That is the only possible explanation!

South Africa, the nation that necklaced it's way out aparthid?

Or the US, where there's a huge way to go, but also the threat of violence from non-peaceful resistance was always there as the stick in contrast with the carrot of MLK's non-violent resistance.

It's nice that you recognize that Israel owes compensation towards the Palestinian people, but before compensation is discussed Israel needs to take the knife out for good and the world needs to recognize how many times the victim has been stabbed while they were distracted by the stabber's cries of pain drowning out the stabbing victim's cries of pain.

What's the knife?

All of the violence Israel has inflicted upon them since 1947.

Ah yes! To the Zionist, black and brown people are only permitted to resist violence and oppression with non-violence. And yet, they use the supposedly inevitable oppression of Jews as justification for the violence expulsion of the group that Zionists were so certain would oppress them. How come Jewish Palestinians are allowed to commit mass violence with international backing, yet non-Jewish Palestinians and every other brown or black oppressed person has to be non-violent and respectable or else their oppressors are apparently within their rights to use violence against them?
This fixation on idealizing non-violence in the American civil rights movement and the anti-apartheid movement is an ignorant slap in the face to those movements. MLK's opponents at the time denounced him as a violent, white-hating radical. The oppressed are only applauded for their non-violence after they have already won. White moderates and conservatives co-opted MLK to act like they loved him all along for being non-violence.
All resistance to segregation and apartheid was treated as tribalist, radical, anti-patriotic, anti-peace, anti-capitalist, and anti-West. Sound familiar? Trying to be peaceful got them the exact same bullets and water hoses as if they were violent. (Gentle reminder that South Africa was eagerly supplied with arms and ammunition by Israel to aid in the suppression of the indigenous people who have lived in South Africa for 1000s of years. Israel really feels like it has nothing in common with indigenous people anywhere for some reason.)
Again: Zionism, like all nationalism, is based on the premise that Jews (or whatever nation) are held to a looser moral standard than anyone else.
You know what non-violent resistance got MLK? A f---ing bullet in the head. The white American segregationist, the white South African, the Zionist Israeli---none of them ever cared about how violent or non-violent resistance is. All resistance to the supremacist state is treated as violent by those who benefit from that supremacy. White Southerners and white South Africans justified their treatment of blacks in the same ways Zionist Israelis justify their treatment of Palestinians: they're barbaric!; If we stop oppressing them, they'll murder us all!!; they don't want equality! they just want power and blood!!
Stop spouting the talking point of segregation and apartheid apologists who want to pretend that they loved non-violent resistance all along, and that they were only against resistance that's violent or mean!

^Things I have heard near-verbatim from Americans who dismiss the suffering of African-Americans or any other objectively oppressed people in this country.

Is this a bad faith response? Does you brain refresh at the end of the day so you forget the many Palestinian grievances that have been pointed out to you on this site alone?
Since a reminder is somehow still needed:
The land which remains stolen since the Nakba
The land which remains illegally occupied
The denial of human rights to non-Jewish Israelis
The cordoning of Palestinians into economically unviable Bantustans
The continued treatment of non-Jewish Israelis as second-class citizens
The demonization of Arabs and Palestinians in Israeli media and politics
The murdering of Palestinians civilians by the IDF and Israeli police with no consequences

Did you forget these things? Or are you suggesting that there is nothing oppressive or wrong about those things?

You are conflating zionism with Israeli jews like conflating white supremacy with white Americans. In both cases the majority community benefited from the oppression of the minority, but that hardly means the majority of jews or majority of white Americans espouse or support these beliefs. I quoted a figure of 44% which happens to be the percentage of Americans who support trump and the exact percentage who support Netanyahu.

I'll quote a scripture from the bible - Matthew 7:3-5 NIV “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

I have already said Israel needs to address all of these. Except your very first point. there seems to be some covert insinuation that the entire state of Israel should be handed back. "From the River to the Sea" isn't that what many young Palestinians ask in their protests?

Israel and Zionists have done more to conflate Israeli Jews and Zionism than I ever will. Zionism is openly done by Jews and for Jews at the expense of anyone else needed to maintain the supremacist state.
And yes, I am conflating white supremacy in America with white Americans, like me. As a white person in America, I benefit from white supremacy at the expense of others whether I like that or not. Unless I actively work against that supremacy, then I am complicit in the suffering of those who that supremacy is built upon. An Israeli of any religion who supports or is neutral regarding Zionism is complicit in the suffering of those who do not benefit from Zionism. Nationalism does not become okay just because you give it a special name and do it on behalf of a historically oppressed people.


Yes. Which means at least 44% of Americans and Israelis actively support ethnic supremacy. Given how few people in each country actively oppose ethnic supremacy, it is safe to say that the majority of both countries is complicit in that supremacy from which they benefit at the expense of others.


Indeed. Israel's eyes must be 90% covered by planks by now, given their fixation on Palestinian crimes and and wholesale justification of anything Israel has ever done to anyone. Israel is even less self-critical than the US, and my God that is really saying something.


Covert? I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I know some of the less daring critics of Zionism like to backpedal on this point for one reason or another.
Nothing covert here: Israel should not exist. Give the land back. Israel is, (I will say this as many times as needed), by its own admission and definition, an ethno-religious supremacist state that exists to benefit Jews and only Jews (unless they're black Jews, of course) at the expense of anyone else. Israel's existence is a crime against human rights and decency.
Palestinians deserve the land returned to then the same way Native Americans in my country deserve the land returned to them. Contrary to what racial supremacists in the antebellum South, or apartheid South Africa, or Israel have said, the people they oppress are not collectively hell-bent on ethnically cleansing their oppressors. It's always the oppressor projecting their own genocidal tendencies onto others.
There should be one state: Palestine. One state where the government does not exist to serve one single religious group. One state where Jews and Christians and Muslims and the Druze and everyone else are equals before the law. A two-state solution is a non-solution. It is Separate But Equal. Israel will never in a million years tolerate a Palestinian state which is its equal economically, politically, or diplomatically. Israel will always work to keep a Palestinian state in poverty and misery and isolation. And as long as Israel does that, Palestine will always resist.
Palestinians want equality and freedom more than Zionist Israelis want their supremacist state. Palestine's allies want that for them more than Israel's allies want to prop up the apartheid state (the same thing that happened to South Africa. Lol even Israel abandoned South Africa, because they didn't want to deal with the diplomatic consequences of supporting an even more obvious apartheid state). It's just a matter of time and will before Palestine is free. Millions of anti-Zionist Jews agree.

this seems to be an extreme position to take. Realistically Israel will persist because there are 7.21m Jews living in Israel. In the future a kind of compromise must be reached where the ethno-nationalist element of the Israeli constitution needs to be removed. It has now served its purpose (much like the US constitution helped establish a "white wonderland" for the "tired, sick and hungry" fleeing Europe). In that respect I agree, having a 2 state solution is not going to work. Palestinians need to be free to move, live, work, marry and become Israeli citizens. the cost for them has been heavy and Israel owes them.

Debunking Destiny on Israeli Apartheid and “Human Shields"