Joined: 30 Oct 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 69,188 Location: Over there
02 Jan 2025, 9:04 am
MaxE wrote:
In 1964 somebody made an excellent film about Jesus, the Gospel According to St. Matthew, in black and white. They filmed it in Italy using mostly local actors. I can vaguely recall they actually used African music as the score. They used an almost entirely Italian cast except they cast a Spaniard as Jesus. I just checked the IMDb listing and it would seem Mary in the Christmas segment was played by a 14-year-old. This is probably about as good as it gets. People should find something better to do than argue about the ethnicity of whomever they cast for whatever role. There are people who have seriously complained that they didn't cast a white woman as Ariel in The Little Mermaid. They should feel lucky they at least cast a cis-gendered woman lol.
I saw this ages ago and seeing the clip on imdb reminded me of how good it is - and best of all, long before all the noise about whether this or that nationality is "appropriate" as [historical figure] became a fashionable distraction from, you know, the quality of the production and the acting. IIRC Bach's St. Matthew Passion (BWV 244) featured heavily too, and to great effect.
_________________ Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.
Joined: 29 Jan 2023 Age: 66 Gender: Male Posts: 2,774 Location: Llareggub
02 Jan 2025, 12:07 pm
If I remember correctly (Arabian Nights, Decameron), Pasolini is particularly partial to penises. I'll have to see what he did with his Jesus movie. Probably next Easter.
Joined: 2 Jan 2025 Gender: Male Posts: 20 Location: Southern dolomitic, northern mediterranean.
02 Jan 2025, 2:51 pm
I don't get: Mary was a israelo jew.
_________________ "Before selling his soul to the painting, he didn’t see it was a caricature He doesn’t seek a pact with the devil if it’s an eternal pain And he lives on the edge between a flying castle and a world inland Now a shadow moves in Italy, stealing while pretending to be a parody Do you know a road, perhaps a secondary one? Gondolier, take him away" Rancore - Arlecchino
Joined: 2 Jan 2025 Gender: Male Posts: 20 Location: Southern dolomitic, northern mediterranean.
02 Jan 2025, 3:05 pm
Honey69 wrote:
AsaboveAsbelow wrote:
I don't get: Mary was a israelo jew.
She was a Galilean Jew.
Yes, but was living in Israel. I can explain in that way: Casanova and Mozart share the same heritage, the movie of Mozart and Casanova look the same but they aren't the same. You can go on to say that Serenissima of Venezia owned Austria but he was austrian and Casanova was italian. Is the same concept. She was an israelian, isn't an insult nor neither... Jesus was a israelo jew against the rich racist jews. Now, keep in mind this, I'm mediterranean and catholic... I do not belong to protestant vision, I don't have any cognitive bias based on Luther vision, I don't need to see Jesus "whiteish". Is just matter of historical vision. Israel back then as now was cut in more open minded and more conservative, she was open minded. Simple they wouldn't be it. Surely Jesus and his pals wouldn't be orthodox jews. I mean I don't understand the problems. Jesus is exactly like a Tomer Sisley whom cried for the war, whom is pro Palestine and proudly israelo-jew... that is the 100% correct historical representation.
_________________ "Before selling his soul to the painting, he didn’t see it was a caricature He doesn’t seek a pact with the devil if it’s an eternal pain And he lives on the edge between a flying castle and a world inland Now a shadow moves in Italy, stealing while pretending to be a parody Do you know a road, perhaps a secondary one? Gondolier, take him away" Rancore - Arlecchino
Joined: 2 Jan 2025 Gender: Male Posts: 20 Location: Southern dolomitic, northern mediterranean.
02 Jan 2025, 6:03 pm
Honey69 wrote:
At the time, "Israel" did not exist. There was Judea, Samaria to the north, and Galilee to the north of that. To the east, Decapolis.
So, neither us italians? Using your logic. Fantapolitic is something I hate. Better stop here... especially because people like you are the motivation because I don't use the socials no more. Fantapolitic is stupid, the war between Israel and Palestine is fantapolitic because Palestine ever existed but never went recognized and Israel ever existed. So, really, stop with fantapolitic. Stop because using your logic South tyrol is Austria but they are italians and they do label themselves as italian. Probably you would label me as austrian randomly because using you logic I'm while I'm not and we were only in Dolomiti areas (where I'm living) for 100 years... so, really, your is fantapolitic. World works different... and I don't excuse you for being autism, I don't excuse racism and antisemitism. I'm not antisemitic nor anti Islam... so, your mind tricks aren't working with me. Sorry. My neighbour are orthodox, I'm catholic, I live near a mosque, I grew up with a famous israelo-jew journalist pro Palestine (Gad Lerner). I'm sorry but if you love fantapolitic don't speak with me and don't speak with me if you believe in fantapsychology or fantamedicine or fantascience. You can believe in parapsychology or parascience or wathever with "para"... but this is fantapolitic. This isn't Risiko. Really, using your logic neither Usa nor Italia exist. Sorry, discussion over... believe what do you believe but hate is something stop my discussion in one second. Good night, sleep well... stay well.
The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult
Italians, good people, Italians with a heart of gold Italy is a Republic founded on work Of saints, poets, mafiosi, and navigators But everyone would like to have Montessori between their fingers English professors who don’t learn another language The English will never have to change currency The English will always drive on the wrong side That’s why whoever goes to London, I know they come back a bit changed Blacks play basketball well They have rhythm in their blood and a big dck Whites on green tables are found reduced to their underwear Every white envies the big dck They say Arabs write backwards Mohammed said that I write backwards So everything right reveals its opposite And if you don’t agree, I’m sorry for you
The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult
The red shirts sewed the country back together The black shirts led it to war The green shirts cleaned their *sses with it The boot’s stylists are the most appreciated When he was there, trains left on time When he was there, they deported us on time When he was there, we weren’t there Because if we were there, we would have been shot So vote for me and you’ll see, I’ll find you a job Vote for me and you’ll see, you won’t get hurt Vote for me and you’ll see, from tomorrow I’ll love you Son, once it was all an election campaign here Want to be a singer? You’ll need a push Want to be a councilor? You’ll need a push Want a career? You’ll need a push On the edge of a cliff, you’ll need a push
The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult
Billionaire footballers chasing a ball Billionaire musicians chasing success Billionaire industrialists chasing pssy With the lottery, I hit the jackpot, I have to I’m not married, let’s say I live together I’m not unemployed, let’s say I’m studying I’m not a criminal, let’s say I manage Let’s say, let’s say, let’s say, let’s say, let’s say A lot of bullsht Don’t watch Devilman, you become violent Don’t read Spiderman, you become violent Don’t listen to Method Man, you become violent Imagine spending a day in parliament Politicians no no are not like they used to be Women no no no are not like they used to be I no no no no am not like I used to be Only the rhetoric has remained the same
The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult
The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult
The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult
The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult
The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult
The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult
The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult
The second album is always the most difficult in an artist’s career The second album is always the most difficult
_________________ "Before selling his soul to the painting, he didn’t see it was a caricature He doesn’t seek a pact with the devil if it’s an eternal pain And he lives on the edge between a flying castle and a world inland Now a shadow moves in Italy, stealing while pretending to be a parody Do you know a road, perhaps a secondary one? Gondolier, take him away" Rancore - Arlecchino
Joined: 29 Jan 2023 Age: 66 Gender: Male Posts: 2,774 Location: Llareggub
02 Jan 2025, 6:59 pm
I am merely stating a fact. There was no place called "Israel" at the time of Jesus. Several centuries earlier, there was one united kingdom called "Israel." Some time after Solomon, they split into two: the Northern Kingdom continued to be called "Israel", while the southern kingdom was called "Judah." Israel, the Northern Kingdom, was smashed by the Assyrians. Judah, the Southern Kingdom, was later conquered by the Babylonians. The Persians conquered the Babylonians, and allowed the Jews to return to Judah and rebuild their temple in Jerusalem. The Northern Kingdom, Israel, later called Samaria, worshiped Yahweh on Mount Gerizim rather than in Jerusalem. The few remaining Samaritans still worship Yahweh on Mount Gerizim.
Joined: 27 Oct 2014 Age: 40 Gender: Non-binary Posts: 29,573 Location: Right over your left shoulder
02 Jan 2025, 7:07 pm
Israel not existing doesn't mean she wasn't a proud Israeli citizen, or something.
Honey, you're allowing your take to be informed by objective facts that are of no use to the feelings that serve as the basis for the opinion you're criticizing.
_________________ I was ashamed of myself when I realised life was a costume party and I attended with my real face "Many of us like to ask ourselves, What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now." —Former U.S. Airman (Air Force) Aaron Bushnell
Joined: 29 Jan 2023 Age: 66 Gender: Male Posts: 2,774 Location: Llareggub
02 Jan 2025, 7:23 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Israel not existing doesn't mean she wasn't a proud Israeli citizen, or something.
Honey, you're allowing your take to be informed by objective facts that are of no use to the feelings that serve as the basis for the opinion you're criticizing.
??? What opinion am I criticizing???
Are you saying that Mary was a "proud Israeli citizen?" She wasn't. A proud Jew, perhaps. A proud Galilean, perhaps. "Israeli" would have meant nothing to her. The term would have referred to the area then known as "Samaria." Samaritans and Jews generally did not get along at all well with each other.
Joined: 27 Oct 2014 Age: 40 Gender: Non-binary Posts: 29,573 Location: Right over your left shoulder
02 Jan 2025, 7:35 pm
Honey69 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Israel not existing doesn't mean she wasn't a proud Israeli citizen, or something.
Honey, you're allowing your take to be informed by objective facts that are of no use to the feelings that serve as the basis for the opinion you're criticizing.
??? What opinion am I criticizing???
Are you saying that Mary was a "proud Israeli citizen?" She wasn't. A proud Jew, perhaps. A proud Galilean, perhaps. "Israeli" would have meant nothing to her. The term would have referred to the area then known as "Samaria." Samaritans and Jews generally did not get along at all well with each other.
I'm agreeing with your criticism of AsaboveAsbelow's opinion that Mary was Israeli. That's the opinion you're criticizing.
It's anachronistic and absurd to insist Mary would have had an Israeli identity. Writing out paragraphs that don't directly support the claim literally does nothing to reinforce the claim. Labelling your position as fantapolitics and going on a rant against fantapolitics doesn't actually address your argument, nor does proclaiming the discussion over.
_________________ I was ashamed of myself when I realised life was a costume party and I attended with my real face "Many of us like to ask ourselves, What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now." —Former U.S. Airman (Air Force) Aaron Bushnell
Joined: 29 Jan 2023 Age: 66 Gender: Male Posts: 2,774 Location: Llareggub
02 Jan 2025, 7:50 pm
Oh. Well, Nazareth is in modern Israel. So, I suppose that modern Israelis can take pride that Mary lived in a city in what is now modern Israel. And Jews can take pride in the fact that Mary was Jewish.
Bethlehem is in West Bank. So, I suppose that Palestinians can take pride in the fact that the Bible states that Jesus was born in what is now West Bank.
And, modern Italians can take pride in the fact that Pontius Pilate sent Jesus to be crucified.
Joined: 2 Jan 2025 Gender: Male Posts: 20 Location: Southern dolomitic, northern mediterranean.
03 Jan 2025, 5:15 am
funeralxempire wrote:
Honey69 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Israel not existing doesn't mean she wasn't a proud Israeli citizen, or something.
Honey, you're allowing your take to be informed by objective facts that are of no use to the feelings that serve as the basis for the opinion you're criticizing.
??? What opinion am I criticizing???
Are you saying that Mary was a "proud Israeli citizen?" She wasn't. A proud Jew, perhaps. A proud Galilean, perhaps. "Israeli" would have meant nothing to her. The term would have referred to the area then known as "Samaria." Samaritans and Jews generally did not get along at all well with each other.
I'm agreeing with your criticism of AsaboveAsbelow's opinion that Mary was Israeli. That's the opinion you're criticizing.
It's anachronistic and absurd to insist Mary would have had an Israeli identity. Writing out paragraphs that don't directly support the claim literally does nothing to reinforce the claim. Labelling your position as fantapolitics and going on a rant against fantapolitics doesn't actually address your argument, nor does proclaiming the discussion over.
Wait, I cannot speak for others nd you can go on speaking about useless fantapolitic topics (it is an italo-based term whom is about when you got theories, our words got a different meaning) I cannot stop THE FORUM. But I can say his discussion with me is over, especially if he is a passive aggressive person.
Using logic he is the classic random germanic-anglo man who is labelling us as "sub race" just because we aren't white for him. Whole Mediterranean know it and we are just hating it... I mean would be call a german "fascist". Plus Israel is a demicracy and many israelians are pro Palestine... I can say the discussion is over, now you can go on but I can choose for me.
Good life, farewell or whatever you anglo people say... tbh I've got a life.
Especially because the last phrase is racist and historically false (it never had happen and he didn't checked) and I use here to say Mozart and Casanova weren't in the same empire. My fault.
_________________ "Before selling his soul to the painting, he didn’t see it was a caricature He doesn’t seek a pact with the devil if it’s an eternal pain And he lives on the edge between a flying castle and a world inland Now a shadow moves in Italy, stealing while pretending to be a parody Do you know a road, perhaps a secondary one? Gondolier, take him away" Rancore - Arlecchino
Joined: 2 Jan 2025 Gender: Male Posts: 20 Location: Southern dolomitic, northern mediterranean.
03 Jan 2025, 5:25 am
I don't care being wrong or right... I just hate passive aggressive behaviors. Good luck for your life. I can close my discussion with you, I didn't sign a contract.
_________________ "Before selling his soul to the painting, he didn’t see it was a caricature He doesn’t seek a pact with the devil if it’s an eternal pain And he lives on the edge between a flying castle and a world inland Now a shadow moves in Italy, stealing while pretending to be a parody Do you know a road, perhaps a secondary one? Gondolier, take him away" Rancore - Arlecchino
Joined: 2 Sep 2013 Gender: Male Posts: 5,861 Location: Mid-Atlantic US
03 Jan 2025, 6:51 am
Modern Italians can take pride in the fact that St. Peter established the Church in Rome, although that was because Rome was the Coruscant of its time.
You have to understand that to traditional Christians, all Jews living in the Holy Land at the time of the Crucifixion ought to have followed Jesus being aware of His ministry. Instead most thought him a PITA and were more than happy to yell "crucify his sorry @ss!" when given the opportunity. ( I apologize but that's basically what's depicted in the Bible). Since then, traditional Christians have basically always seen being Jewish as a negative and it's the basis for traditional European antisemitism.
So objection to casting a Jewish woman as Mary is essentially old fashioned antisemitism, not any particular concern for the plight of Palestinians of any religious affiliation.
02 Jan 2025, 9:04 am
