Blood of patriots

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what about people like david koresh and jim jones? muslims don't have the monopoly on religious extremism, and if you believe that they do then you are quite misinformed.

george w bush started a war based on the idea that "god (the christian god) was on your (america's) side", and that you were righteous warriors in a battle against the "evil-doers". does this sort of terminology ring any bells? this post is completely racist and disgusting, and chocked full of ignorance and unfounded hatred. i guess i shouldn't be surprised.

mongoloid????? jesus wept. this is not the language of racists though, eh? might want to consider how offensive that word used in that context is to asians, unless of course that is that you don't give a flying f*** about offending entire races of people.

First of all, I said MOSTLY MUSLIMS. As an atheist, when did I ever defend Christianity? Or religious whackos like Jim Jones or David Karesh? I’m well aware of the fact that ALL religious whackos are perfectly capable of terrorism (Extreme Christians bombed a building in Oklahoma City in 1995, also some extreme Christians bomb abortion clinics every so often). When did I ever defend any of this garbage?

Secondly, I HATE GEORGE BUSH. Let me put this in terms you can understand. I have been against the Iraq war from the very beginning. Saddam was a slim ball, but he didn’t have anything to do with 911. We should have focused all of our attention on Afghanistan, where the plan for 911 was launched.

Thirdly, I voted for Obama. How does that make me racist? Do not ever say I supported George Bush again.

i'm going to ignore the insult and just respond with civility. never once in my post did i say you personally supported george bush. please don't put words in my mouth. it's not a good way to make a point for your argument.

also, where is the statistical data that proves that it is muslims who "take it way too far" in comparison to other ideologies? or are you just basing that statement on your own unfounded and misinformed opinion. do you personally know large numbers of muslims who "take it way too far"? these sweeping statements are ignorant and biased against whole groups, using a small number of radical individuals to represent the whole.

I apologize for the insult. I just strongly disagree that my post was racist or disgusting, or chocked by unfounded hatred. I’m my opinion, the only people who are chocked full of hatred are people who kill other human beings based on religion or ideology. Nevertheless, I still handled the situation poorly and apologize.

As for the statistical data you want, I’m not going to bother searching for statistics of which religion kills the most people. If you are truly interested in religious extremism, then I suggest you research sharia law. Sharia law is responsible for monstrosities, such as killing women for being impure after getting raped, while the rapists get off free, and public decapitations for people accused of committing crimes. And yes, in my opinion, this is taking religion way too far. Then again you are entitled to your opinions as well.

what about mormons and their polygamy and rampant spousal/child abuse and incest? the point i was trying to make is that any and all religious ideologies have been at some time, or are now, in some respects over-the-top and contain people who are willing to twist "god's law" to their own agendas. this phenomenon is not exclusive to islam. i am aware that some of their ideas are sexist and violent--but saying these attitudes represent the majority of the believers is biased, in the very least. what about the millions of muslims who live throughout the world who don't rape, who don't decapitate people and have no wish to do so, who don't believe that everything western is evil? the millions of muslims who simply wish to live, to raise their families, to retain their culture as they have every right to do, just as you do and as everyone is entitled to do? the violent fundamentalists do not represent the majority of muslims. that is just false.

basically i just don't understand how a rational person could believe that "eradication" is the answer to this problem. posts like this only encourage more hatred from the people who believe in these extreme ideologies. if we only ever respond to what we feel is wrong with attempts at domination, destruction and violence, then how can we expect anything but the same response from those who apparently need to have their religious attitudes "reprogrammed" from something that you arbitrarily denote to be wrong, to something more acceptable to you? if we never learn to extend hands in the wish to understand, to embrace difference, and to support the rights of all people (including women who are being oppressed) by offering a willingness to work together to solve these issues, then we are doomed as a species.

it's not that i disagree that there are muslim fundamentalists, and that they are dangerous. it's the method described here to deal with the issue that i disagree with. no man has the right to establish himself as "morally superior" to another. all this does, and ever has done, is create division, hatred, and destruction. hasn't the world seen enough of that already?

the only way to truly reach people, and the only way you could ever have a chance to change these people's minds about women or the west, is to implacably appeal to their humanity. nothing else works. this is a universal truth.

Last edited by starvingartist on 28 Mar 2009, 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

For f***s sake, of course I do not want to have a genocide of racists, I was refering to Ruveyn's comments

the whiter the purer!
*banners rolling down in the background*
*repeated chants by millions of people*
*STOMP STOMP STOMP STOMP*

Given recent events I would say that so called christians behave worse than Islamists. I laugh at some of you trying to defend you pathetic views, trying to convince us that you are not racist. I have more respect for ruveyn at least he is open about his hatred.

You crap on about Muslims attacking our way of life and how we must defend our borders. None of you have bothered to ask WHY young men and women strap bombs to themselves and commit suicide, you do not ask why their parents rejoice in their martyrdom. You just see 'western' civilisation as the innocent victim of crazy Islamists who without provocation are attacking us.

You conveniently ignore the mess we have made in their countries and I do not just refer to the recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have been messing with them since the middle ages.

This recent bout of violence has its roots back in the late 50's with the deliberate manipulations of the Neo Cons on one side and the Extremist movement started by Sayyid Qutb on the other

But of course both the Neo Cons and Qutb correctly foresaw that idiots would not bother to look to the cause and instead believe the propaganda, and would be easy to manipulate.

Well done guys you are making the likes of Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz, Bin-Laden, Al-Zawahiri and Sadr really happy with your gullibility.

After reading this I now think you may have misunderstood just one point I made. It was also probably my own fault for not making it clear. When I said mostly Muslims, I was saying that most of the current religious fundamentalists in the world right now are Muslims. Not that most of the current Muslims in the world are religious fundamentalists.

DentArthurDent wrote

"Given recent events I would say that so called christians behave worse than Islamists. I laugh at some of you trying to defend you pathetic views, trying to convince us that you are not racist. I have more respect for ruveyn at least he is open about his hatred.

You crap on about Muslims attacking our way of life and how we must defend our borders. None of you have bothered to ask WHY young men and women strap bombs to themselves and commit suicide, you do not ask why their parents rejoice in their martyrdom. You just see 'western' civilisation as the innocent victim of crazy Islamists who without provocation are attacking us.

You conveniently ignore the mess we have made in their countries and I do not just refer to the recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have been messing with them since the middle ages.

This recent bout of violence has its roots back in the late 50's with the deliberate manipulations of the Neo Cons on one side and the Extremist movement started by Sayyid Qutb on the other

But of course both the Neo Cons and Qutb correctly foresaw that idiots would not bother to look to the cause and instead believe the propaganda, and would be easy to manipulate.

Well done guys you are making the likes of Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz, Bin-Laden, Al-Zawahiri and Sadr really happy with your gullibility."


I am not a christian, nor a neocon. I voted for Obama. I’m pretty sure that Zyborg and Ruveyn aren’t Christians neither, but I can’t be positive on that. What that said, who is this directed at?

I do not care about suicide bombers and I am against war in Iraq. If it is proven war in Afghanistan is based upon false terror attack, then I am against war in Afghanistan as well.

What I do care about is how moslems demand separate laws and laws against freedom of speech in European and other nations. Their goal is obvious occupation and ideological brainwash.

This statement shows me you have absolutely no idea what I am talking about and therefore no idea what is going on. Of course you're not a Neo Con if you were you would not believe the propaganda perpetrated by them.

Instead you are an instrument of their making.

I can tell you why. Their evil demonic religion has changed them from ordinary humans into murdering devils.

This sh*t goes all the way back the the Hashishim (Assassin) movement in Persia (Iran) in the 9th century c.e. They didn't have explosive vests in those days so they sent in knife wielding murderers to slay their targets which almost always lead to the death of the Assassin. Hasan Ibm al Sabr, the founder of the movement convinced his "operatives" that infinite sexual delights awaited them in Paradise.

So Muslim murderers were making life hard for their enemies long before the secular powers of the West arose.

Eventually you will wake up to the fact that Islam generates a disproportionate amount of the misery that exists. I don't know how many Islamic slayings and outrages it will take to open your eyes. 9/11 was enough for me. On 9/10 I didn't think much about Islam. On 9/12 I realized we would have to destroy these people.

Delenda Islam Est

ruveyn

Yet again you ignore all the viciousness of extreme christianty and judaic behaviour. You cannot hold one religious extreme up for examination without doing the same to the others. To do this is to be disingenuous

Edit: Ruveyn Attribute quotes to the correct people. I don't (and I doubt Hester does either) appreciate my words being attributed to him

Last edited by DentArthurDent on 29 Mar 2009, 6:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

History is full of such examples:

Just to name the Knights Templar, which lived a monk-like live deprived of all luxury to fight; the mass madness of Children Crusade or the willingness of Catholics and Protestants alike to die in 16th and 17th century for their particular believe system and even to kill others.

I can understand ruveyn's desire for a total and quick solution which would remove the insanity contained within Islam quickly and neatly. But an atomic obliteration of billions of people has repercussions far beyond destroying Islam, even if it could be done. The second world war with the Nazi insanity tarred Germany for decades and that involved far fewer victims and had far less implied damage to the ecology of the planet. Because the militants within Islam are a minority - even if it is a large minority - the psychological damage to the survivors would be huge and crippling and no doubt would generate frightful viciousness within remaining humanity that might go on for centuries if not interminably. The experience in Iraq and Afghanistan clearly indicates that massive violence merely creates more violence.

Islamic people are people just like non-Islamic people and are susceptible to other, slower, changes that might take decades or centuries but the rewards of patience and compassion are far greater than what looks like a quick and easy solution that will probably be no solution at all in the long run.