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zer0netgain
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15 Jan 2014, 8:11 am

sonofghandi wrote:
I currently work for the federal government. I will definitely agree that the amount of paid time off is extremely excessive (especially when you consider that all the federal holidays are paid days off). But I will say that I have seen no more laziness or irresponsibility than I have seen working outside of the federal government.


I'd not be so fast to say that.

I can't think of the last time a person in the private sector could avoid doing their job AND not be fired for it as compared to what federal and state workers can do once they get past probational status.



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15 Jan 2014, 8:57 am

zer0netgain wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
I currently work for the federal government. I will definitely agree that the amount of paid time off is extremely excessive (especially when you consider that all the federal holidays are paid days off). But I will say that I have seen no more laziness or irresponsibility than I have seen working outside of the federal government.


I'd not be so fast to say that.

I can't think of the last time a person in the private sector could avoid doing their job AND not be fired for it as compared to what federal and state workers can do once they get past probational status.


Well friend as another person here that worked for the federal government for over 2 decades..

I can tell you this...

There was a time before computer technology that a person could basically avoid work for substantial periods of time each day..as there were an over abundance of physical human beings in the workplace..as the system in place at that time..simply allowed that to happen..as supervisors could create positions..to make their own little dynasties..using government funds...

Well...computer technology and ever dwindling government funding has changed all that friend...

Those days are long gone...

IN my position..the computer 'goddess' i was chained to provided me the ability and the requirement to be a Personnel Specialist..Supervisor of up to over 130 people..Accountant..Safety Specialist..Payroll Technician..Technical Writer..Marketing Specialist..Equal Employment Opportunity Specialist.. Information Technology Specialist and trouble shooter..and that is just the begging of the list... but yah..as ya might see specialist in this case meant specialist of most all trades..just to meet the requirements of just one job..not over 10.

And oh yeah..assistant department head..Athletic director of a military installation..Community activities director for a time..

And in effect financial management assistant to the Captain of the base..to develop business plans to keep operations open that were failing as a result of dwindling funding and customer interest for operations... so yeah..over 10....

Those days of the lazy government worker for the most part is just a myth propagated from the past where at one time there was credible evidence for the occurrence of the lazy government worker...

If you do not get your government service now ..as a US citizen... most often.. it is an issue of workload..not apathy toward the job...

And even the carrots and sticks are changing now in the personnel system..where employees are not protected in their jobs..like they were at one point in time..

Working for the government ain't no free ride anymore..and for the most it is an issue just like anywhere else now..to keep a job..in an extremely competitive job market..as well as government funding cut-backs that can and does threaten jobs everyday..just like in the private world..when the customers stop coming..to buy the product......no funding means no funding..regardless of the source of funding..to keep a job.


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Last edited by aghogday on 15 Jan 2014, 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

aghogday
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15 Jan 2014, 9:08 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
I think while it's advisable for people to take care of themselves, and they should accept a degree of the responsibility of their actions, there is still a huge difference between the irresponsible, and the purposefully malign.


Well, if you'd spent any time working for/or with the federal government you'd know what kind of ass-hattery, irresponsibility, and maggotry it's capable of and partakes in daily. :?


I have indeed dealt with social workers employed by Adult Protective Services when my late Mom had been getting on Medicaid, and I can most assuredly say that these bastards were lazy, vindictive, and got more vacation time than anyone should be entitled to.


You might check..but even as the Adult Protective Services agency might have been overall funded by some government source..it is highly unlikely that the social workers themselves were actually getting a paycheck directly from some government source..

For the most part these type of jobs are contracted out now..to private contractors...

But that is in Florida were i live..so i guess it could be different in your state..:)


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15 Jan 2014, 9:20 am

sonofghandi wrote:
I'm sure there are differences betweeen different offices and departments, but to assume that government workers are all the way that they are continuously portrayed by those who wish they got better pensions and health coverage is absurd.


I don't think anyone said that each individual government employee is worthless but there are enough that are to taint the government as a whole. It is a perfect breeding ground for bureaucracy, incompetence, and over the top arrogance. I could sit here and write page after page of experiences and observations from the perspective of being a government contractor employee working closely with employees of a few federal goveremnt entities.


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15 Jan 2014, 10:47 am

Raptor wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
I'm sure there are differences betweeen different offices and departments, but to assume that government workers are all the way that they are continuously portrayed by those who wish they got better pensions and health coverage is absurd.


I don't think anyone said that each individual government employee is worthless but there are enough that are to taint the government as a whole. It is a perfect breeding ground for bureaucracy, incompetence, and over the top arrogance. I could sit here and write page after page of experiences and observations from the perspective of being a government contractor employee working closely with employees of a few federal goveremnt entities.


WELL DUDE being a contractor and working around them...isn't close to having the full responsibilities of a government worker in our modern day...

You would have to actually be a government employee to understand their full 40 hour week..not just passing observations of contract employees..been there done that..the government contract employees at the military installation i worked at...read books and played video game with their feet propped up..as they could get away with..it..as most of 'em were retired military folks..and the buddy system was in effect...

It did not work that way... with either active duty military or real government employees..that were not in the good ole boy place...

Who were only getting one paycheck..and not another one2.. they could rely on.. no matter how may video games they played in their current job...

So in others words.. obviously my personal experience... is only my personal experience..

But the same applies to you....


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15 Jan 2014, 11:00 am

And this is likely part of the issue with the failure of the online registration system..for the new health care act system...

There are not enough government employees with enough time to properly write a contract...

And the contract employees only have to do what is in the contract...

Nah..they do not have to do 15 different jobs that are not in their contract job description...

It is a common fallacy that contract employees are more efficient than government employees and an obvious one...for people who are actually doing the jobs..and responsible for the end product..

As government employees can be slaved in to many jobs..as they are not controlled by clauses in contracts...

If real government employees..enough of them..worked to create that system..more than likely it would have worked..

Ergo NASA.. and the success there..in the 60's.. run by almost all dedicated GOVERNMENT CIVIL SERVICE EMPLOYEES...

THE POINT IS NO MATTER HOW LAZY SOME OF THE NASA FOLKS MIGHT HAVE BEEN..THE PRODUCT WAS DELIVERED ON TIME..AND IN PROPER WORKING ORDER..ENOUGH TO SUCCESSFULLY GET to THE MOON....

There really is no other practical explanation..for the failure of the health care act..online registration system...

i watched the same thing predictably happen when the DOD consolidated computer systems..for what IS called NMCI....

6 months..'quickly' turned in to 5 years..

As the refrain of it's not in our contract was sung over and over and over....again...

Where i was effectively and successfully performing 15 jobs..while they were whining about 1..with another duty..that was not in the contract...

Seriously.. in total effect.. this is just another friggin conspiracy theory..promoted by right wing and alex jones type enthusiasts...

it's just BS..as usual...


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15 Jan 2014, 11:07 am

aghogday wrote:
Raptor wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
I'm sure there are differences betweeen different offices and departments, but to assume that government workers are all the way that they are continuously portrayed by those who wish they got better pensions and health coverage is absurd.


I don't think anyone said that each individual government employee is worthless but there are enough that are to taint the government as a whole. It is a perfect breeding ground for bureaucracy, incompetence, and over the top arrogance. I could sit here and write page after page of experiences and observations from the perspective of being a government contractor employee working closely with employees of a few federal goveremnt entities.


WELL DUDE being a contractor and working around them...isn't close to having the full responsibilities of a government worker in our modern day...

You would have to actually be a government employee to understand their full 40 hour week..not just passing observations of contract employees..been there done that..the government contract employees at the military installation i worked at...read books and played video game with their feet propped up..as they could get away with..it..as most of 'em were retired military folks..and the buddy system was in effect...

It did not work that way... with either active duty military or real government employees..that were not in the good ole boy place...

Who were only getting one paycheck..and not another one2.. they could rely on.. no matter how may video games they played in their current job...

So in others words.. obviously my personal experience... is only my personal experience..

But the same applies to you....


I don't have to become a dog to know dogs behavior nor am I going to peruse a civil service job just so I can report from the inside to your liking.


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15 Jan 2014, 11:22 am

And now to be crystal..clear.. if a private corporation was responsible for the ACA with no red tape of a federal contract..it very likely could have been as or more efficient..than any completely government employee organized and run effort...

There has been more waste with the red tape of federal contracts..than almost any organized effort to get a job done anywhere in this country...

Federal contracts are what is more ripe for abuse than any other part of organized government efforts..

Ergo Iraq..and all the crap that happened there too..when rebuilding that country...

It's the effective reason we even went..free money for federal contracts....

Dick Cheney and his federal contract cohorts..if i need go any further..on that more than obvious incentive..for a money free for all....


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15 Jan 2014, 11:26 am

Raptor wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Raptor wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
I'm sure there are differences betweeen different offices and departments, but to assume that government workers are all the way that they are continuously portrayed by those who wish they got better pensions and health coverage is absurd.


I don't think anyone said that each individual government employee is worthless but there are enough that are to taint the government as a whole. It is a perfect breeding ground for bureaucracy, incompetence, and over the top arrogance. I could sit here and write page after page of experiences and observations from the perspective of being a government contractor employee working closely with employees of a few federal goveremnt entities.


WELL DUDE being a contractor and working around them...isn't close to having the full responsibilities of a government worker in our modern day...

You would have to actually be a government employee to understand their full 40 hour week..not just passing observations of contract employees..been there done that..the government contract employees at the military installation i worked at...read books and played video game with their feet propped up..as they could get away with..it..as most of 'em were retired military folks..and the buddy system was in effect...

It did not work that way... with either active duty military or real government employees..that were not in the good ole boy place...

Who were only getting one paycheck..and not another one2.. they could rely on.. no matter how may video games they played in their current job...

So in others words.. obviously my personal experience... is only my personal experience..

But the same applies to you....


I don't have to become a dog to know dogs behavior nor am I going to peruse a civil service job just so I can report from the inside to your liking.


Seriously..not likely you could handle it dude..from what i've seen so far from you only in words...so that's probably a good choice..overall...

in just my opinion..of course...

It ain't easy even if you ain't autistic to be a government employee...

You HAVE TO PLAY BY THEIR RULES..NOT BY YOURS...

AND THAT'S A FACT... and nah i do not see that even possibly happening with ya....but i could be incorrect..as i know only words from ya....

And that's fine.. ya really don't need that stress..in my opinion..either..cause i've been there done it..friend....


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15 Jan 2014, 11:52 am

/\
Yes, I'm quite terrible.
:twisted:


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15 Jan 2014, 12:04 pm

Raptor wrote:
/\
Yes, I'm quite terrible.
:twisted:


well..yah..it was not fun having to play by everyone else's rules for 24 years...

And you can bet i do not do it now...

i play by my rules..and yah..that's fun..

But i'm retired..makes it easy...:)

i sincerely hope the same for you..to be free..truly free..

wherever you find it....


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15 Jan 2014, 12:31 pm

sonofghandi wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
I think while it's advisable for people to take care of themselves, and they should accept a degree of the responsibility of their actions, there is still a huge difference between the irresponsible, and the purposefully malign.


Well, if you'd spent any time working for/or with the federal government you'd know what kind of ass-hattery, irresponsibility, and maggotry it's capable of and partakes in daily. :?


I have indeed dealt with social workers employed by Adult Protective Services when my late Mom had been getting on Medicaid, and I can most assuredly say that these bastards were lazy, vindictive, and got more vacation time than anyone should be entitled to.


I currently work for the federal government. I will definitely agree that the amount of paid time off is extremely excessive (especially when you consider that all the federal holidays are paid days off). But I will say that I have seen no more laziness or irresponsibility than I have seen working outside of the federal government. I'm sure there are differences betweeen different offices and departments, but to assume that government workers are all the way that they are continuously portrayed by those who wish they got better pensions and health coverage is absurd.


Well, I admit that my perception of these particular social workers had been tainted because they and I had not exactly parted on the best of terms.


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16 Jan 2014, 6:58 am

So, after FOUR MONTHS of trying. I finally got signed on to the ACA.

Not happy about it. But being unemployed, I need to eliminate my costs as much as possible, and I'd be penalized for NOT having health insurance.

The problem I had getting on? The stupid computer system kept deleting answers on my application. Someone on the other end had to manually enter the answers.

On my first try, I guessed my income based on minimum wage and 20 hours a week (what I can expect around here). I got nothing. Yes, Medicaid was expanded, but other than NOT wanting to be on Medicaid, my state was one of many that did not elect to expand Medicaid coverage. Subsidized coverage started at 11,490. Doing the math, that was basically 25 hours a week or more, which is feasible since I need more than a 20-hour per week job. I refiled the app with my expected income at $11,500, and that got me subsidized coverage.

Of course, I need to watch my income, and if I may go over that (or get a good job), I need to set aside for every penny the government paid for because the IRS may require me to repay part or all of it in 2015. [sarcasm] Good thing the ACA made everything simpler, right? [/sarcasm]

So, all you tax paying people get to foot the bill for my health insurance. I'm paying MORE (total cost) for a lesser policy than what I'm coming off of. [sarcasm] Another victory for the ACA. [/sarcasm]

The guy at the call center was very sympathetic. He suggested they set up a bar in the workplace (even if it was a cash bar) because of all the headaches they've had since day one. It was only in the last month they started getting things worked out so that policies could go forwards, and he acknowledged how stupid it was that to get a subsidized policy a person had to go through them or the website. It only bottlenecks the application process when any insurance office can take down the information and get things done.

I did just start with a tax prep service. So, soon I get to deal with all the bums rushing in to claim their EIC credit where the government gives them a refund they never earned...all footed by the taxpayers.

I, of course, don't qualify for the EIC because it's really set up to reward people for popping out kids that we'll have no jobs for after they finish high school.



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16 Jan 2014, 9:43 am

zer0netgain wrote:
So, after FOUR MONTHS of trying. I finally got signed on to the ACA.

Not happy about it. But being unemployed, I need to eliminate my costs as much as possible, and I'd be penalized for NOT having health insurance.

The problem I had getting on? The stupid computer system kept deleting answers on my application. Someone on the other end had to manually enter the answers.

On my first try, I guessed my income based on minimum wage and 20 hours a week (what I can expect around here). I got nothing. Yes, Medicaid was expanded, but other than NOT wanting to be on Medicaid, my state was one of many that did not elect to expand Medicaid coverage. Subsidized coverage started at 11,490. Doing the math, that was basically 25 hours a week or more, which is feasible since I need more than a 20-hour per week job. I refiled the app with my expected income at $11,500, and that got me subsidized coverage.

Of course, I need to watch my income, and if I may go over that (or get a good job), I need to set aside for every penny the government paid for because the IRS may require me to repay part or all of it in 2015. [sarcasm] Good thing the ACA made everything simpler, right? [/sarcasm]

So, all you tax paying people get to foot the bill for my health insurance. I'm paying MORE (total cost) for a lesser policy than what I'm coming off of. [sarcasm] Another victory for the ACA. [/sarcasm]

The guy at the call center was very sympathetic. He suggested they set up a bar in the workplace (even if it was a cash bar) because of all the headaches they've had since day one. It was only in the last month they started getting things worked out so that policies could go forwards, and he acknowledged how stupid it was that to get a subsidized policy a person had to go through them or the website. It only bottlenecks the application process when any insurance office can take down the information and get things done.

I did just start with a tax prep service. So, soon I get to deal with all the bums rushing in to claim their EIC credit where the government gives them a refund they never earned...all footed by the taxpayers.

I, of course, don't qualify for the EIC because it's really set up to reward people for popping out kids that we'll have no jobs for after they finish high school.


Well sadly enough..ya could credit the good upstanding evangelistic christians republican politicians in your state for taking food out the mouth of babes like yah..friend..sad but true..

i guess ya could always move to a more compassionate and feeling state though if ya like...and or if ya could....

Freedom ..liberty..justice...and all of that..

But here's the thing..there really ain't no real crime in not getting the insurance if ya truly cannot pay it...

The system is set up for naysayers..and that is the truth to..if ya hold true to your own personal will and values...

I don't play by stupid rules..i don't get afraid if i drive 26 in a 25 zone...

Sometimes it is one of those things ya have to do ..to stay alive.

the MOST noble thing of life

there
is..

so whAT this means as current law is written...and don't take my word for it please..verIFY it with your tax consultant or whoever you trust in real life...

But my understanding is that all the IRS could possibly do if you did decide to forgo the process and meet the fine...

iS all theY could do is take the fine out of your refund if you ever work again..even

and get one coming...

Your choice.. your will..and do what you have to do .. whatever i suppose...

But life ain't fair..and people are not fair...AT TIMES...

Including your state politicians obviously..

of course in just my

opinion

friend...

THAT REALLY SUCKS..IS ALL I CAN SAY..TRULY

AND GOVERNOR SCOTT @LEAST EQUALLY SUCKS IN FLORIDA..

IN MY JUST I CE..IN JUST MY OPINION TOO...


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10 Mar 2014, 6:26 am

Interesting

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/10/us/li ... 18218&_r=0

States are signing prisoners up for Medicare now.



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10 Mar 2014, 11:21 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Interesting

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/10/us/li ... 18218&_r=0

States are signing prisoners up for Medicare now.


^it is much cheaper that way. Several states were trying to do that back in the 90s so they could pay Medicare prices instead of whatever the hospital system felt like charging.


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