Gun possession

Post Reply New Topic

My family’s safety is my responsibility, the police usually arrive post-incident.

If my wife or myself become a target and I don’t have a firearm the police probably won’t be a factor; especially in rural areas, while camping, or on the road. Being unprepared is a poor excuse for not being able to protect ones family or oneself. I support full access to a broad range of firearms and the ability to conceal them at will, provided I am not at any areas where security measures prevent them (courthouses, airports, congress).

I can come up with more news stories than you can.
http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx I suggest using the keyword: "home".

THe Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Tucker, GA, 3/20/08
State: GA
American Rifleman Issue: 3/20/2008
When an intruder broke into their Tucker, Georgia, home last Tuesday night, 81-year-old Robert Jenkins heroically protected his wife and property with a handgun. Jenkins grabbed his 78-year-old wife’s handgun after hearing unfamiliar noises late in the night and encountered an intruder in his kitchen. The intruder charged at Jenkins and they struggled over the gun until Jenkins fired, killing the intruder. DeKalb County police spokesman J.T. Ware said, “He defended his home, defended his wife. He did what everybody would hope to do in a situation like that.”

The Macon Telegraph, Milledgeville, GA, 3/04/08
State: GA
American Rifleman Issue: 3/4/2008
A week before Christmas, Ken Foshee of Milledgeville, GA was contentedly sitting on the back deck of his new home, his wife and grandson warm inside when two armed assailants surprised Mr. Foshee, forcing him into his home and demanding money. In the struggle, one of the robbers shot Mr. Foshee in the hand. Foshee’s grandson ran next door to alert his uncle, Ronnie, the Foshees’ son, who grabbed his gun and ran to help. Ronnie fired a warning shot, causing the robber who was holding a knife to Mrs. Foshee’s throat to flee. As the remaining assailant was severely beating Mr. Foshee in a bedroom, Ronnie shot and killed him, saving his father’s life. Baldwin County Sheriff Bill Massee said, “Had it not been for the grandson's brave action and Ronnie Foshee arriving at his parents' home, it's likely the attack would have ended in even more tragedy.”

SouthCoastToday.com, Rochester, MA, 2/28/08
State: MA
American Rifleman Issue: 2/28/2008
Brad Correia and his family had just returned to their home in Rochester, Mass. when a stranger knocked on the door. With his children safe in bed, Mr. Correia tucked his handgun into his pants before answering the door to a disheveled looking stranger who said his car had broken down on the interstate. The Correias invited him into their home and offered the use of their telephone along with warm tea and fresh clothes, but when Mr. Correia began noticing inconsistencies in the man’s story, he called the police and learned the man was a fugitive. Mr. Correia held the fugitive at gunpoint until police arrived. Rochester Police Chief Paul Magee said of Mr. Correia, “I commend the man for his actions. He did what he needed to do, and I am glad it worked out well and nobody got hurt.”

My Eyewitness News, Memphis, TN, 2/21/2008
State: TN
American Rifleman Issue: 2/21/2008
A convicted sex offender was shot and killed after he broke into a Tennessee home, intending to rape two young sisters inside. The younger sister escaped after being tied up and ran to her aunt’s house next door for help. The sisters’ cousin, a Right-to-Carry permit holder, shot the intruder after the intruder attacked him.

Waynesville Daily Guide, Waynesville, MO,11/17/07
State: MO
American Rifleman Issue: 2/1/2008
A crime spree was in progress. Two people were already in the hospital with serious head injuries. Police say the suspects in that crime, a 30-year-old man and a 16-yearold boy, chose a disabled man and his wife as their next victims. The suspects broke into the home with a pellet gun and baseball bat Despite the homeowner's spinal affliction, he proved no easy victim. He drew a handgun, causing the older intruder to flee. The younger intruder waited for authorities. "I'm a Life member of the National Rifle Association and I personally love homeowners being able to defend themselves and their families," said Pulaski County, MO, Sheriff J.B. King.

Yakima Herold-Republic, Yakima, WA, 11/21/07
State: WA
American Rifleman Issue: 2/1/2008
Jason Moore returned home to find a strange car outside. A concealed-carry license holder, he grabbed a .45-caliber handgun from his truck and inspected the home, finding the back door kicked in. Once inside, he spied a man in the bedrodm. He approached cautiously and spotted another suspect. The second man was holding Moore's own shotgun. "I fired one round and he went down," Moore said. "I Immediately dialed 9-1-1 and told them not to move ... I told them that a lot." The injured suspect complied, but the other claimed to be a gang member who would have Moore killed. When police arrived, they informed Moore that the injured suspect was wanted by U.S. Marshals on drug charges and his accomplice was a suspect in a homicide. "It's just scary to know that there were two people that bad in my house and in my bedroom," said Moore.

Associated Press (AL), 10/18/07
State: AL
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2008
Tiffany and Adrian McKinnon returned from vacation to find their Montgomery, Ala., home ransacked. "Tears just rolled down my face as I walked in and saw everything gone and piles of trash all over my home," recalled Tiffany. Adrian was surveying the damage when, incredibly, a man walked through the back door wearing Adrian's hat! Police say Adrian pointed a gun at the suspect and told him to lie on the floor. Then Adrian got an idea: He forced the suspect to clean up the mess. When police arrived, the suspect griped about his treatment. "The police officer laughed at him when he complained and said anybody else would have shot him dead," said Tiffany.

The Dallas Morning News, Dallas, TX, 10/17/07
State: TX
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2008
Locksmith Dennis Baker, the victim of three burglaries in less than a month, has a home security system and three surveillance cameras monitoring his property. But police say the fourth burglary was foiled by an unlikely source -- Baker's pet parrot, Salvador, which says "hello" when it sees someone. Presumably spotting the prowler, the bird squawked, "Hello, hello," waking Baker, who retrieved a gun and investigated, locating the suspect in a garage. Baker noted, "He had his hands in his pockets when he came through here. I had no idea what he had." Baker shot the burglar, killing him.

The Record, West Paterson, NJ, 09/26/07
State: TX
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2008
Returning home to find a man rooting around in her living room, a 22-year-old woman quickly fled to the bedroom. She locked the door behind her and obtained her husband's handgun and ammunition. According to authorities, the young woman fled to an adjacent bathroom and turned the door's lock while the intruder forcefully entered the bedroom. She quickly loaded her husband's gun and, when the intruder began pounding on the bathroom door, she fired a single shot. Upon realizing his intended victim was armed, the once-brazen thug fled the home.

Precisely. I hate things like this. If they presented the statistics and then pointed out that they don't have the causal story yet and so there's no really confidence that other interacting causal factors are not distorting the results, that'd be great. Instead, they draw vast conclusions from probably methodologically flawed data.

I've always imagined that were I to live in the USA I'd have a complete autistic obsession with guns. Not really sure it would have vast social implications either way (seems the UK has a substantial knife crime problem, so if someone wants to do something illegal there's already plenty of means of doing so lethally, not sure legal guns would make a vast difference) but I do think it's one thing this country should change.

As ever, not that I see a single thing to suggest UK is moving in the slightest direction of oppressive government, on the basis that such developments could theoretically happen and are often highly unpredictable (origins of 1930's totalitarianism for example) I consider an armed population essential defense against the mere possibility of said oppressive government. Maybe as low as 1% chance within my life time but that 1% would legitimise legalisation of guns in my mind.

Tragic? I THOUGHT IT WAS HILARIOUS!! !! I mean, come on, what kind of idiot pulls a gun and shoots without calling out? I the dumb sack of sadscum lived in a nice, suburban area too (used to live in the Orlando area) but was just paranoid probably because he watched too much Glen Beck or some of that other intellectually damaging garbage.

Since we are apparently no longer being serious, allow me to present:

40 Reasons to Support Gun Control
(Apparently derived from the essay by Michael Z. Williamson.)
(Also known as the proof positive that Liberals are not just stupid, but insane.)

1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, and Chicago cops need guns.
2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 80.6 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Arlington, VA's high murder rate of 1.6 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.
3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."
4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994, are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.
5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.
6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.
7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.
8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.
9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense — give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p. 125).
10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns and Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.
11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seatbelts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for spinal paralysis, a computer programmer for Y2K problems, and Sarah Brady [or Sheena Duncan, Adele Kirsten, Peter Storey, etc.] for firearms expertise.
12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1791, refers to the National Guard, which was created by an act of Congress in 1903.
13. The National Guard, funded by the federal government, occupying property leased to the federal government, using weapons owned by the federal government, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a state militia.
14. These phrases," right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumeration's herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people," all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers to the state.
15. We don't need guns against an oppressive government, because the Constitution has internal safeguards, but we should ban and seize all guns, thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments to that Constitution.
16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense, which is why the army has millions of them.
17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they serve no military purpose, and private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles," because they are military weapons.
18. The ready availability of guns today, with waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting, government forms, et cetera, is responsible for recent school shootings,compared to the lack of school shootings in the 40's, 50's and 60's, which resulted from the availability of guns at hardware stores, surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, mail order, et cetera.
19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, and the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.
20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.
21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.
22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."
23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.
24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.
25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.
26. A self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."
27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.
28. The right of online pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.
29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self-defense only justifies bare hands.
30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.
31. Charlton Heston as president of the NRA is a shill who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.
32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.
33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.
34. Police officers, who qualify with their duty weapons once or twice a year, have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.
35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.
36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.
37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people, which is why the police need them but "civilians" do not.
38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.
39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.
40. When Handgun Control, Inc., says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands," they don't mean you. Really.

from http://attrition.org/technical/firearms ... ntrol.html

Using that same argument: should individuals be allowed to stock nuclear arms if they wanted? Their own ballistic missiles of differing strengths?

A military insurrection can be easily crushed today with modern ballistics and drone fighters. Care to tell me what use the pea-shooters ("assault rifles") do against real military weapons that come with the triple burst and fully-auto?


Using an argument that was only relevant 200 years ago is weak at best and idiotic in all sense of reality.

Or do you really think you could hold your own against the government's military might?

Nukes are not common weapons of personal defense.



Um. No.

Russians lost in Afghanistan. USA will lose in Afghanistan. USA couldn't crush the resistance in Iraq after how many years? We just redefined the mission until we could claim success and walk away.

FWIW, the whole "full auto" weapon is largely a joke. "Pray and spray" (as it's often called) is a waste of ammo and you're lucky if you hit anything. A man with a bolt action could yield more damage than a guy with an M-16 if he has the skill.

They certainly are quickly becoming that way, it would seem.

Let me know when Basque has one.





Afghanistan isn't much of an example except for the Appalachians...if that. Do we have a cave system in our mountains the way the Afghans do? I mean I know about Site R but that's controlled by the government.

No comment on bolt action vs auto because it's pretty irrelevant anyways when you consider military numbers vs civilian and training and all the other essentials. And the military are definitely being trained to "maintain the peace" in the case of "civil unrest" here.

^

Ska seems to be confusing destroying a country with ruling one, there is a substantial difference. We could have destroyed Iraq quite easily without even putting boots on the ground, it's the whole installing a new regime part that's so difficult. Iran would be much the same, we could destroy their military capability in a month of air strikes, but trying to stabilize the place would be a nightmare. An even better example of the power of a lightly armed indigenous rebellion stymieing a modern military would be Northern Ireland during the height of the troubles, when the British army had to move in armored convoys to avoid being picked to pieces in the countryside. That case didn't even involve an armed populace being oppressed by it's own government and the high likelihood of defections from the very troops ordered to fight their own countrymen. Also, remember WHO was shipping weapons over to the IRA? Here we already have all the guns we need, and there are plenty of guys like me who are willing and able to produce or modify weapons to a selective fire capability if necessary, though as has been stated previously burst fire is overrated.

All that being said, I personally don't place the "fighting the government" reason high on my list of reasons to own a gun, it's below personal protection, love of my hobby, it's none of anyone's but my own business, and several others that I don't feel like getting into. Basically, I don't believe in prohibition as a concept in general, all it accomplishes is criminalizing more people and creating black markets, which both cause more trouble than whatever the item being prohibited ever caused.

Last edited by Dox47 on 15 Oct 2009, 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

f**k gun control. The only thing it does is make it a game of who's the most well connected. It's not fair for law abiding citizens to be restricted to 10 rounds of 9mm in each clip, while criminals are running around with Mac 10's.

That last time a nuclear weapon was fired in anger was Aug 9, 1945.

ruveyn

And yet everyone wants to have them.

Nuclear weapons are a red herring in this thread. They are an unrealistic stretch in an argument on whether or not to have guns.

I've never owned a gun but I believe that the law-abiding citizens who are willing to bear the responsibility of owning guns should always have the right to keep and bear them. I don't think anyone should have the power or authority to deny an individual the means to defend him/herself with either a gun or rifle.