I have a question for only Christian aspies

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Orwell
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05 Apr 2010, 1:02 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
I don't see compatibilism as any more stupid than metaphysical libertarianism.

Well, an Open Theist or even a Dualist can hold to libertarianism as being a divine mystery or a function of the immaterial mind, respectively. That allows them to stay fairly consistent with their own beliefs, even if I think their beliefs are probably wrong. Compatibilism is P AND ¬P, and therefore it is BS no matter what.


Well, P seems to be "Macroscopically, everything is part of a chain or several chains of causuation" and Free Will is the belief that "You cause you're own actions", so I don't see how it's ¬P. As a matter of fact, you're whole argument seems to be based on overprecision - assuming that Free Will is fleshed out as a concept more explicitly than it really is.

¬P is "People have the freedom to choose one thing or another, transcending above the constraints of prior chains of causation." So compatibilists really are asserting P AND ¬P, which means that they are definitely wrong regardless of what actually is true (libertarianism or determinism). Meanwhile Open Theists and Dualists are just non-materialists; it is hard for them to back up their claims, but they at least retain some internal consistency.

Precision is necessary to make meaningful statements. Free Will has to be fleshed out explicitly in order to mean anything. When pressed, proponents of free will do not accept that "free will" decisions are ones that are genetically or environmentally determined; that is, they are not the result of a previous chain of causation and are thus incompatible with a truly deterministic system.


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Orwell
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05 Apr 2010, 1:09 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
*sigh* Oh yeah, that's why you have to love conservative Christians. God is good, God is holy, God gives morality, God is whatever the f*** He feels like and we have to accept what this is as "good", "holy", and "moral", making all of the earlier superlatives worthless and dead.

God created everything to glorify Himself, including creating beings (starting with Satan) who would be opposed to Him so he could glorify Himself through the act of defeating His own creations. :huh: I don't think I will succeed in understanding this particular conservative, as he was able to sympathize with every crazy view listed by the recent Harris poll (yes, even the Obama anti-Christ one).


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Awesomelyglorious
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05 Apr 2010, 1:11 am

Orwell wrote:
God created everything to glorify Himself, including creating beings (starting with Satan) who would be opposed to Him so he could glorify Himself through the act of defeating His own creations. :huh: I don't think I will succeed in understanding this particular conservative, as he was able to sympathize with every crazy view listed by the recent Harris poll (yes, even the Obama anti-Christ one).

That's pretty standard conservative Calvinism.



Orwell
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05 Apr 2010, 1:20 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
That's pretty standard conservative Calvinism.

But it seems to kill religion. I mean, why bother worshiping a God who has created everyone, all our suffering and striving and seeking, as mere trophies for Himself? This brand of conservative Calvinists are fond of quoting Isaiah 45:9 (about the potter and the clay), but if God is just going to do what He will with us whether we like it or not, where do they get the sense that we must love God and that He is worthy of our praise?

I dunno, I can't see the point or the heart in such a conception of religion.


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Awesomelyglorious
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05 Apr 2010, 1:28 am

Orwell wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
That's pretty standard conservative Calvinism.

But it seems to kill religion. I mean, why bother worshiping a God who has created everyone, all our suffering and striving and seeking, as mere trophies for Himself? This brand of conservative Calvinists are fond of quoting Isaiah 45:9 (about the potter and the clay), but if God is just going to do what He will with us whether we like it or not, where do they get the sense that we must love God and that He is worthy of our praise?

I dunno, I can't see the point or the heart in such a conception of religion.

Did you read this comment:

"*sigh* Oh yeah, that's why you have to love conservative Christians. God is good, God is holy, God gives morality, God is whatever the f*** He feels like and we have to accept what this is as "good", "holy", and "moral", making all of the earlier superlatives worthless and dead."

Now do you get why I said it?



astaut
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05 Apr 2010, 1:34 am

I usually just stay home and fill my time with learning trivial things and playing video games. I often get depressed because I know I am empty inside. I have stopped reading my Bible as well. I keep thinking to myself "How can I do God's work (telling others about Jesus) and be a Christian when I'm always alone?
It seems like some people feel like they have very clear-cut commands from God, like 'go be a missionary in China', or 'be a teacher', etc. I've never felt this way. I just try to behave in a way I think is suitable. I can't stand it when someone has that Holier-than-thou attitude, then is unkind and stuff. When I say 'behave' I don't mean behave as in I'm not going to be caught drinking or something like that. I mean I'm not going to...well, I try to not be an ass basically.

It is also hard for me to emotionally understand God like a Father, as I notice NT Christians view Him emotionally....Whenever I pray to God, I feel like I have no emotion, that I'm talking to hear my own voice.
Some people take everything in the Bible very literally, but I consider the Father thing a metaphor. I think it's there just for you to pick which works best for you. Father and child, bride and bridegroom, sheep and herder, clay and the potter, etc. The father metaphor nor the bride never really made sense to me. There is a book by Donald Miller called "To Own a Dragon" where he talks about the father metaphor and how he had a warped view of it as he grew up without a father. He is a good author if you get a chance to read his books. I feel the same way when I pray, I'm glad to hear someone else feels the same way.

What I'd like to know is, do you guys feel the same way? That you have trouble relating to God on an emotional level and that you always feel alone and needing to be with people than with God?
I think me and you have similar feelings. But I haven't had the feeling that I want to be with people instead of God, if that's what you're saying. I mostly relate with you on the praying part. I have pretty much quit praying. Partly because I feel like I'm talking to myself, and because I get distracted mid-prayer. (I pray silently and I just bounce to another thought in my head.)