Are Women's Rights Against The Bible?

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LiberalJustice
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15 Feb 2010, 9:10 pm

pandabear wrote:

And, abuse is cool, so long as you can find some Biblical passage that appears to support your position, regardless of the original context.

No, it is not OK in God's eyes, read these passages on abuse:

Psalms 11:5

Quote:

The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Zephaniah 1:9

Quote:

In the same day also will I punish all those that leap on the threshold, which fill their masters' houses with violence and deceit.

Psalms 37:9:

Quote:

For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Malachi 2:16-17

Quote:

“I hate a man’s covering his wife with violence, as well as with his garment.” says the Lord Almighty...."You have wearied the Lord with your words.” “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying “all who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them,” or “Where is the God of justice?”.

James 1:19-20

Quote:

Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Sexual abuse is talked about here

Ephesians 5:3-5

Quote:

But fornication (note: that is to say, sexual immorality, including sexual abuse), and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

The Bible on verbal abuse
Proverbs 10:6

Quote:

Blessings are upon the head of the just: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.

Proverbs 10:11

Quote:

The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.

Matthew 5:21-22

Quote:

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

God comforts those who are abused and sympathises with them, evidence of this is found in the following verses:

Psalms 18:48

Quote:

He delivereth me from mine enemies: yea, thou liftest me up above those that rise up against me: thou hast delivered me from the violent man.

2 Samuel 22:28

Quote:

And the afflicted people thou wilt save: but thine eyes are upon the haughty, that thou mayest bring them down.

Psalms 22:24

Quote:

For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

Psalms 140:12

Quote:

I know that the LORD will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and the right of the poor.

Psalms 72:14

Quote:

He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.

Psalms 9:9

Quote:

The LORD also will be a refuge for the oppressed, a refuge in times of trouble

Psalms 103:6

Quote:

The LORD executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed.

Psalms 146:7

Quote:

Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:

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Ancalagon
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15 Feb 2010, 10:13 pm

pandabear wrote:

And, abuse is cool, so long as you can find some Biblical passage that appears to support your position, regardless of the original context.

While I don't support taking Biblical passages out of context to justify random things, what abuse are you talking about? Spanking =/= abuse.

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Sand
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15 Feb 2010, 10:14 pm

Tensu wrote:

there is no such thing as sanity, therefore there is also no such thing as insanity.

I hear you pleading your cause.

pandabear
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15 Feb 2010, 10:15 pm

There are plenty of verses that could be taken as shooting the other way. I just can't be bothered to quote any at the moment.

Vexcalibur
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15 Feb 2010, 10:21 pm

LiberalJustice wrote:

Do you really think that God would tell husbands to love their wives if he viewed Women as pieces of property? I don't.

I do, but then again I think a lot of people love some of their property.

Again, if you think your quote contradicts mine, then it is just a case of the bible contradicting itself. Something that is not particularly hard to find...

So, if you want, Women's rights are against the bible, or at least against the sexist fraction of the bible and we should really not pretend like this fraction does not exist. The bible was written by a bunch of sexist males , after all.

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Tensu
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16 Feb 2010, 4:35 pm

Sand wrote:

Tensu wrote:

there is no such thing as sanity, therefore there is also no such thing as insanity.

I hear you pleading your cause.

hear what you want. the dictionary definition of sanity makes no sense.

Omerik
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16 Feb 2010, 5:02 pm

Tensu wrote:

there is no such thing as sanity, therefore there is also no such thing as insanity.

Insanity refers to psychotic situations nowadays, at least legally.
At least in Spanish sano means healthy, and sound. Therefore, someone who is insane is someone who has no logic, or something like that. So today they don't think that being weird is not sound, and use it for psychotic situations, as far as my knowledge goes.

I think that according to this, if it means not being rational, insane would be a good term to describe people who think that "supporting your troops" means sending them to war, but that's for another topic :roll:

Tensu
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16 Feb 2010, 5:44 pm

but that's the thing: everyone does what is logical.

Some people are Deluded, Foolish, or ignorant, and that leads them to think something is logical when it really isn't, but everyone follows some sort of logic, even if it's not one others can understand due to the delusions, foolishness, or ignorance of that person.

thus there is no insanity: only fallacy.

pandabear
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16 Feb 2010, 7:57 pm

1 Timothy 2:

Quote:

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

I Corinthians 11:

Quote:

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.

I Corinthians 14:

Quote:

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

pandabear
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16 Feb 2010, 8:39 pm

If you ladies have any doubts concerning your position, consider Deuteronomy 22:

Quote:

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

According to Exodus 22:

Quote:

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and lies with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.

Ordinarily, according to Deuteronomy 24:

Quote:

When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

pandabear
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16 Feb 2010, 8:56 pm

And, look at Numbers 30:

Quote:

When a man makes a vow to the LORD or takes an oath to bind himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said.

When a young woman still living in her father's house makes a vow to the LORD or binds herself by a pledge and her father hears about her vow or pledge but says nothing to her, then all her vows and every pledge by which she bound herself will stand. But if her father forbids her when he hears about it, none of her vows or the pledges by which she bound herself will stand; the LORD will release her because her father has forbidden her.

If a woman marries after she makes a vow or after her lips utter a rash promise by which she binds herself, and her husband hears about it but says nothing to her, then her vows or the pledges by which she bound herself will stand.

But if her husband forbids her when he hears about it, he nullifies the vow that binds her or the rash promise by which she binds herself, and the LORD will release her...

If a woman living with her husband makes a vow or binds herself by a pledge under oath and her husband hears about it but says nothing to her and does not forbid her, then all her vows or the pledges by which she bound herself will stand.

But if her husband nullifies them when he hears about them, then none of the vows or pledges that came from her lips will stand. Her husband has nullified them, and the LORD will release her.

Her husband may confirm or nullify any vow she makes or any sworn pledge to deny herself. But if her husband says nothing to her about it from day to day, then he confirms all her vows or the pledges binding on her. He confirms them by saying nothing to her when he hears about them.

If, however, he nullifies them some time after he hears about them, then he is responsible for her guilt.

If a man is going to be held responsible every time a woman open her mouth, then he should at least have a paddle at his disposal.

Omerik
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16 Feb 2010, 9:39 pm

Thinking about it - isn't this topic a bit pointless? At least the way it's going...
I mean, seriously, we're arguing on whether the bible is chauvinist or not. Both sides, as I see it, are not. Now, if you want to convince religious people there is no God, there are better ways to do it, than to show another interpretation. On the other hand, I'm better off showing my interpretations to people who DO believe in the bible and ARE chauvinist.

So basically, what are we doing here? I mean, you even said you can't ignore the so-called anti-women part in genesis, but I think I offered another explanation in the first pages. I thought about commenting to these quotes above my post again, but I've already done that, explained different meanings, bad translation (my Hebrew Bible says different things...), and all that - but really, it's going nowhere.

If you want to show religious people why they are wrong, I think this method isn't going to work after 8 pages. And it's also pointless for religious people to keep insisting, as we just keep saying the same things in different words. We're even back to the same claims.

Just wanted to point that out, and perhaps we can move to another theological discussion - you're free to continue :wink:

pandabear
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16 Feb 2010, 10:05 pm

The topic is not whether or not there is a god.

The original question is whether women's rights are against the Bible.

I'm pointing out that women's rights are clearly defined within the Bible, and that women are to be subordinate and submissive to their husbands.

Whether or not there is a god should be a separate topic.

Omerik
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17 Feb 2010, 12:20 am

pandabear wrote:

Accept your comment.

But this isn't going anywhere. You point out one thing, others point out another one. As said, I see here new posts which I already replied to... I think that means that this topic isn't really progressing.

That said, you can continue :roll:

Vexcalibur
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17 Feb 2010, 7:48 am

Omerik wrote:

pandabear wrote:

Kid, If that was a reason to stop discussing, we would have no discussions in here.

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Omerik
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17 Feb 2010, 12:28 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

Omerik wrote:

pandabear wrote:

Kid, If that was a reason to stop discussing, we would have no discussions in here.

Look, I may be young, but I'm the king of discussion!
Since I was 3 years old, people shouted at me "you always have something to say!"
I was blessed with this gift, I'm the lord of discussions.

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