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God-given rights?

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leejosepho
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07 Mar 2011, 9:14 pm

JWC wrote:
It was the result of your effort and your will power.

No, it was done for me ...

"But my friend (Ebby T.) sat before me (Bill W.), and he made the point-blank declaration that God had done for him what he could not do for himself. His human will had failed. Doctors had pronounced him incurable. Society was about to lock him up. Like myself, he had admitted complete defeat. Then he had, in effect, been raised from the dead, suddenly taken from the scrap heap to a level of life better than the best he had ever known!
Had this power originated in him? Obviously it had not. There had been no more power in him than there was in me at that minute; and this was none at all." ("A.A.", the book, page 11)

"In this book you read again and again that faith did for us what we could not do for ourselves." (pages 70-71)

"If we are painstaking about this phase of our development (Steps Four thru Nine), we will be amazed before we are half way through ... We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves." (pages 83-84)

@JWC: There is absolutely no way you or anyone else will ever be able to show my recovery came from anyone or anything other than "God" as you might either understand or misunderstand "God".


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JWC
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07 Mar 2011, 9:17 pm

Name one.



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07 Mar 2011, 9:57 pm

Calling the sane and sensible Orwell:

Am I wrong again and again, or are others ALSO talking about the "wrong" human rights?

It does not somehow sound like what I have been told this is supposed to be about.



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07 Mar 2011, 11:17 pm

Philologos wrote:
Am I wrong again and again,

Quite possibly.

Quote:
or are others ALSO talking about the "wrong" human rights?

This thread has gone on 7 pages, and I have yet to see a serious attempt at a theological basis for rights. There have been a number of responses, varying in quality, but most have gone off in some other direction. 91 tried to establish human rights through a different route than theology, you made some beginning of an attempt at grounding a much weaker notion of rights than context required, JWC had a bizarre and incoherent Randian tautology of rights, and now leejosepho and JWC are arguing over whether God helps alcoholics.

Quote:
It does not somehow sound like what I have been told this is supposed to be about.

Threads get derailed. What's your point?


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08 Mar 2011, 1:05 am

My point?

Simply wondering, since my effort, however flawed, was reproved, yet I was according to my lights at least trying to speak to what in impartial English speaker would see as the point.

These others being to my bleary eyes further off what I was told was the track not being approved, I wondered were they saying something important I was missing.

One tries to gather data that may help in communicating with alien minds.



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08 Mar 2011, 1:07 am

As a step toward communication, I will point out that if I produce what seems to be a question,. and it is not so phrased as to be obviously sarcastic, I will normally be seeking data.



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08 Mar 2011, 8:40 am

Inuyasha made it clear why the, irrational, delusional push to pretend that God gives rights. It is there just so that the theists can claim that "atheism promotes tyranny".


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08 Mar 2011, 12:07 pm

Quote:
atheism promotes tyranny


Ah, silly Theists. Atheism promotes nothing. It is down to individual atheists to voice their views, or not. When will Humanity's adolescence end? Its about time to stop believing in Santa Claus, Homo Sapiens


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08 Mar 2011, 12:24 pm

Vigilans wrote:
When will Humanity's adolescence end? Its about time to stop believing in Santa Claus, Homo Sapiens

I believe that is an unfair characterization. Belief in "Santa Claus" merely skews perceptions of "God".


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08 Mar 2011, 12:27 pm

Most people in the West begin their lives as part of the cult of SC and later just believe in JC. Both have roughly the same amount of supporting evidence


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leejosepho
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08 Mar 2011, 12:35 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Most people in the West begin their lives as part of the cult of SC and later just believe in JC. Both have roughly the same amount of supporting evidence

In that specific light, we agree ... and I was shocked a few years ago when my preacher brother told me he thought SC was harmless within the assembly.


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08 Mar 2011, 12:43 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Most people in the West begin their lives as part of the cult of SC and later just believe in JC. Both have roughly the same amount of supporting evidence


Let us not quibble over when life begins in the West and what constitutes a cult [belief is not cultus]. I like precise definitions but enough is adequate.

But with your point, many of us agree. We MIGHT not agree on how much evidence there is and how to weight it?



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08 Mar 2011, 12:52 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Most people in the West begin their lives as part of the cult of SC and later just believe in JC. Both have roughly the same amount of supporting evidence

In that specific light, we agree ... and I was shocked a few years ago when my preacher brother told me he thought SC was harmless within the assembly.


I always wondered why it is that SC seems so valued, many, perhaps, don't even think of Jesus on the day (which is actually Mithras' birthday, but that is worthy of another thread, perhaps)
If I am not mistaken, SC is a product of Coca-Cola

Philologos, I was referred to the belief in SC as cult-like, though one must admit, at some point ~2000 years ago Christianity itself was a small cult, in a way


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08 Mar 2011, 12:52 pm

Philologos wrote:
We MIGHT not agree on how much evidence there is and how to weight it?

Among the Puritans or whoever, Christmas was specifically disallowed in the early days of the US of A.


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leejosepho
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08 Mar 2011, 12:56 pm

Vigilans wrote:
I always wondered why it is that SC seems so valued ...

It is all in that little "Oh, you'd better watch out ... so be good for heaven's sake" jingle, and I call that the SC theology of today's Christianity.


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08 Mar 2011, 12:58 pm

:lol: Good point


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