Canadian Federal Election on May 2nd

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Yay! Greens won a seat!

Well, so much for the good news...

The Orange Order that hung the Father of Manitoba (Louis Riel) has had disasterous effects on the political culture of Canada, even after the order shrunk thanks to the social welfare state crowding out their charitable efforts.

I'd not mind making a spot for the anglos in Quebec. o.O But i question myself regarding the attractiveness our cause might have to their eyes. Obviously the United States and the rest of Canada have this "image" that they fight to protect, while Quebec more or less has one. Anyways, i try to be as welcoming and nice to anyone i meet, giving them the benefit of the doubt. If they choose to show me their bad traits, well... =/ I can only forgive so much. <.< I just won't respect anyone who disrespect his fellow men and women, because we shouldn't tolerate intolerance. -.-

edited out a typo.

Not Quebec Anglo politicians, really, but there were crazies like Galganov who used to go on about the evils of the Lamb Lobby, I'm talking about those in the Rest of Canada.

Don Cherry is a very good example of the mindset. He represents the right wing scum everyman to a tee, which is one reason why he is so popular, though most Canadians don't raid Liberace's closet as he does.

The hanging of Louis Riel helped ensure Liberal hegemony over Quebec for about a century.

I think that English speaking people are more masochistic when it comes to economics. They really believe that the most painful treatments are the most effective. This mindset exists throughout the Anglosphere. Stupid American right wing nonsense contaminates English Canada far more easily than it does French Canada, the language helps to buffer it somewhat. Moreover, there isn't this love of being whipped and caned culture in French Canada, the French world actually glorifies guillotining those who would make people suffer "for their own good".

Quebec should separate because Western Canadians are convinced that French Canadians are lazy good for nothings and that all social spending benefits them. They see them like they're black people in the USA. The reason why multinational countries have weaker social safety nets is because the bosses can successfully divide the workers by nation. They can be convinced that the people benefiting the most from the safety net comes from an unworthy race, that this race is gaming the system. By having Quebec separate, this will end this argument and Western Canadians no longer can feel outraged that their tax money is going to unworthy races.

Nothing original here, Pierre Vallières expounded this nonsense in Nègres blancs d'Amérique over 40 years ago.

Western disaffection has far more to do with the legacy of Ernest Manning, and the Social Credit movement than it does with Québec nationalism.

Separation will do precisely nothing to appease the West--in fact, it will have precisely the opposite effect, since it will mean that in one moment, Ontario will have 50% of the Canadian population, and the political clout to impose policy on the rest of the country.

You do know that there are Francophone Communities in the West, there are large communities of First Nations in the West, and that 3 of the 4 Western Provinces have elected NDP governments? And I respectfully request that you clarify your position on what Manitobans think. And what would your little seperatist enclave do with the First Nations communities?

^ This. It is not exactly taught to people from Quebec that there are some of us spread across the provinces (ALL provinces of Canada, to be exact), one must either do the research by him/herself or be exposed to it beforehand.

I kind of wish that 3 of those 4 western provinces that were elected had a bit more representativity when it comes to seats in Parliament. (Maybe it's time to make renovations and add more! ) Except neither Ontario or Quebec will give up their seats for the others it seems. =/

Regarding the First Nations...Well... I personnally doubt we could do any worse with them than what the federal government is doing with them, but treaties and the like might be a problem, to be sure. If anything, i wish they could be incorporated into the citizenry willingly, otherwise well, it'll just be status-quo since i doubt we're here to force anyone, else we'd be no better than who we're trying to free ourselves from. <.<

Anyways, i doubt this could be answered / solved instantly, it's the kind of things that take years to discuss until a balance is reached. =/

I'd also like to add to my comments that the ethnically diverse Praires (where, as far as I know, no town's council has given immigrants a condescending declaration telling them not to to stone women- unlike some Province) hosts a few Louis Riel statues and Louis Riel Day is a Provincial Holiday in Manitoba:

http://www.gov.mb.ca/february_holiday/index.html

Last edited by Master_Pedant on 05 May 2011, 12:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

But given that Xenon13 knows about NAIRU, the dynamics of Lee Atwater calling evangelicals "extra Chromosome people", and structural shifts in the economy - he should at least have learned about the comparative demographics of Canada.

Provincial esteem issues topic

Your arguments sound like something from the late 60's and early 70s. In the other provinces the people do not feel like that anymore. I love Quebec, francophone writers and the French language. I learned to read French passably well from cereal boxes, and watching French language programmes. what little instruction I learned in school was not adequate, not because of hatred of Quebec but because of poor taxpayer funding in Ontario, which has changed a little for the better,; some effort is better than nothing. When I was young only the very rich/super smart could attend the Toronto French School, and there was no public French immersion, so unless your parents spoke French, could afford better schooling or tutors, you were out of luck unless you were like me and tried to learn on your own.

By all means keep the French language, and understand not all of us have French heritage, et des nombreaux Anglophones aimons la language du Quebec (even if our grammar is a bit off ).

They don't think like that? The Conservatives certainly do. They use dog whistle politics to appeal to that tendency all the time. There's this attitude with English speakers all over the world that I call masochism, this idea that they'll take punishment from the authorities because it's good for them, any problems they have are their own fault, if a policy makes them comfortable then it must be bad for them. The French in contrast guillotined those who tried to ram that down their throats - the French Revolution was preceded by the implementation of liberal economics "for their own good" that increased inequality.The English-speakers in Canada think French-speakers are a bunch of softies who whine and complain and don't grit their teeth and bear it for Master. Don Cherry plays to that, applying this stereotype to hockey players.

Don Cherry is a four carrot a-hole. I heard that he ran away from the only Hockey fights he got into (and that prick also hates Toronto cyclists).

But your comments were on Western Canada in general. There are many areas in Western Canada that are Conservative either due to vote splitting or weird districts (i.e. so many Edmonton districts contain part of the city, but a large part of them goes into rural Conservative territory).

I am aware of the fact that I have been generalising, and I do know that this unfortunate debate in France about burqas and chadors found its way in Quebec with the Herouxville nonsense, that there's is a developing right wing machine in Quebec with the owners of Sun Media, and there's the NDP in the west, but I think generally the bad guys have made more inroads in English Canada unfortunately because of some of these deep seated wrongheaded ideas. In Britain they have the Labour Party and they had a strong union movement but these unpleasant tendencies I think have helped tip the balance in favour of reprehensible people like Thatcher and Cameron. Ireland also seems to be in the grip of masochism. Some people have been reported to have said with pride that they've taken abuse from the government that would have had half of France in the streets without protest.

I think that Don Cherry represents the Conservative Party perfectly. The attitudes, the anti-intellectualism, the bigotry, it's all there.

I think these views are somewhat outdated, unless you are a frequenter of Vigile.net, in which case they're outdated and horribly misinformed. And as to Don Cherry- I know a lot of Anglos here that hate him, he is a loudmouthed idiotic buffoon who has a half witted understanding of politics. You don't seem to realize that the anti Quebec sentiment isn't exclusively to you Francophones. My friend moved to Alberta a few years ago and a lot of people hated him simply by virtue of the fact that he is from Montreal, they don't care that he is English. And as to that whole guillotine reference, I recommend you really read about the Reign of Terror in France and think about whether or not it was really such a good thing. Remember, Robespierre himself got the guillotined in the end.

The Language Laws are about as masochistic and sadistic as one can get. Its almost Orwellian. Create a fake class struggle and let people keep thinking that the situation is still analogous to 1890's Quebec, when in reality it is quite the opposite. And in reality, the worst time Quebec had under British rule was the time period between 1760 and 1774. After this things got a lot better- I would even say the British were magnanimous to the Quebecois, so magnanimous that it pissed the Americans off to no end, contributing to their revolution. Even the Patriotes of 1837, were not alone- there was a rebellion in Upper Canada, too, against British rule, for many of the same reasons.

I'm not sure how you can say there is no love of subservience in Quebec, considering it was essentially a Feudal society under the French seigneurial system up until the 1840s or so, and the Catholic church pretty much dominated life until the Quiet Revolution- which was ushered in under a Quebec Liberal Party government, not a nationalistic party. Naturally the answer was the FLQ starting to put bombs in the mail boxes of innocent Anglo families, culminating in the October Crisis when they murdered Pierre Laporte & held James Cross hostage. It never ceases to amaze me that some ignorant white trash in our province holds these FLQ terrorists up on a pedestal. There is even efforts at revisionist history to hide the fact that these people are cold blooded killers. They walk the streets of Quebec when they should really be rotting in solitary confinement

The "White Terror" that happened years laterwards was also pretty bad, plus Jacobin rule ended by slauhgtering thousands of Paris's urban poor. So, in history, there really are few "good guys".