Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Sinn Fein wants referendum on Irish unification

Page 7 of 13 [ 196 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 13  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

02 Jul 2012, 4:50 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
And the second UI you broght up is what I want.


That would mean that there would be a considerable degree of British and Unionist influence in the new all-Ireland state, recognition of separate (British) identity and so on, British passports being available for all Irish citizens (something which only people born in NI get currently). Something that many Irish Nationalists find impossible to stomach.


Then their is just no way to have a UI. And everyone be happy.



Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

02 Jul 2012, 4:51 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
UI is united the country


At the moment, it will massively impoverish both former jurisdictions, cause a massive, massive headache for the South and would essentially just be importing all of NI's sectarian and social problems and potential for conflict (would the Irish Army be able to cope with a huge resurgence in 'Loyalist' violence?) just to remove a line from a map.


If they would be fine with a police state. The Irish Army can try to keep the peace.



Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

02 Jul 2012, 4:53 pm

Joker wrote:
Then their is just no way to have a UI. And everyone be happy.


My point is that it could be done but that SF and their ilk would have to have as little to do with it as possible. SF are the worst possible advert for Irish Nationalism and a UI to Unionists, considering they spent more than 30 years trying to murder and terrorise them into a United Ireland. SF as a Nationalist movement are toxic.



Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

02 Jul 2012, 4:57 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
Then their is just no way to have a UI. And everyone be happy.


My point is that it could be done but that SF and their ilk would have to have as little to do with it as possible. SF are the worst possible advert for Irish Nationalism and a UI to Unionists, considering they spent more than 30 years trying to murder and terrorise them into a United Ireland. SF as a Nationalist movement are toxic.


I have been a SF member and supporter since high school. Their message is good in my mind. But to the unionists it;s like you said toxic.



Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

02 Jul 2012, 5:01 pm

Joker wrote:
I have been a SF member and supporter since high school. Their message is good in my mind. But to the unionists it;s like you said toxic.


What would you think if a political wing of the UVF was the main advocator of the Unionist case? That's what you're asking Unionists to accept. Would you listen to anything that a political movement that was directly responsible for the murder of your friends/ family?

That's why SF are so disgusting. They have the blood of thousands on their hands. No Unionist will ever consent to a UI with SF or any extreme Nationalist movement associated with it. It will just never, ever happen.

The funny thing is, a lot of people of the Republic have very little time for SF also, as they see them as murderous extremists.

If you want a UI, the best thing you could hope for is for the likes of SF to disappear altogether.



Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

02 Jul 2012, 5:04 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
I have been a SF member and supporter since high school. Their message is good in my mind. But to the unionists it;s like you said toxic.


What would you think if a political wing of the UVF was the main advocator of the Unionist case? That's what you're asking Unionists to accept. Would you listen to anything that a political movement that was directly responsible for the murder of your friends/ family?

That's why SF are so disgusting. They have the blood of thousands on their hands. No Unionist will ever consent to a UI with SF or any extreme Nationalist movement associated with it. It will just never, ever happen.

The funny thing is, a lot of people of the Republic have very little time for SF also, as they see them as murderous extremists.

If you want a UI, the best thing you could hope for is for the likes of SF to disappear altogether.


I am a strong SF supporter. I don't see me no longer supporting them. Plus I was happy to see the queen of England. Shake hands with Gerry Adams 8) That made my day :D



Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

02 Jul 2012, 5:05 pm

Joker wrote:
I am a strong SF supporter. I don't see me no longer supporting them. Plus I was happy to see the queen of England. Shake hands with Gerry Adams 8) That made my day :D


And that kind of rhetoric ensures a divided Ireland.



Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

02 Jul 2012, 5:06 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
I am a strong SF supporter. I don't see me no longer supporting them. Plus I was happy to see the queen of England. Shake hands with Gerry Adams 8) That made my day :D


And that kind of rhetoric ensures a divided Ireland.


The main issue to me is that. Their all Irish let it be a country. For the Irish and the Irish alone.



Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

02 Jul 2012, 5:12 pm

Joker wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
I am a strong SF supporter. I don't see me no longer supporting them. Plus I was happy to see the queen of England. Shake hands with Gerry Adams 8) That made my day :D


And that kind of rhetoric ensures a divided Ireland.


The main issue to me is that. Their all Irish let it be a country. For the Irish and the Irish alone.


You really haven't got a clue.

And what of the Unionists (the Ulster Protestants who have lived in Ireland longer than the U.S. has been a state)? Are they not every bit as Irish as everyone else on the island? Can the people of Northern Ireland not decide their own future - i.e. to stay in the UK?

Unionists are Irish too, you know. They are also British.



Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

02 Jul 2012, 5:15 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
I am a strong SF supporter. I don't see me no longer supporting them. Plus I was happy to see the queen of England. Shake hands with Gerry Adams 8) That made my day :D


And that kind of rhetoric ensures a divided Ireland.


The main issue to me is that. Their all Irish let it be a country. For the Irish and the Irish alone.


You really haven't got a clue.

And what of the Unionists (the Ulster Protestants who have lived in Ireland longer than the U.S. has been a state)? Are they not every bit as Irish as everyone else on the island? Can the people of Northern Ireland not decide their own future - i.e. to stay in the UK?

Unionists are Irish too, you know. They are also British.


I know they are but they care to. Much about their birtish culture then their. Irish roots which angers me. Sigh...I was born in the wrong country.



Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

02 Jul 2012, 5:23 pm

What's wrong with being an Irishman that would prefer to remain in the UK? There is a sizeable number of pro-Union Catholics in Northern Ireland, who historically would have supported a UI. Answer me that.



Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

02 Jul 2012, 5:39 pm

Tequila wrote:
What's wrong with being an Irishman that would prefer to remain in the UK? There is a sizeable number of pro-Union Catholics in Northern Ireland, who historically would have supported a UI. Answer me that.


They neglect their Irish roots. I mean I live in America but I don't consider myself one. I view myself as Irish. But people in the UK don't see it that. Way unless I go to Ireland and visit my family. At least they view me as one of their own.



Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

02 Jul 2012, 6:06 pm

Joker wrote:
They neglect their Irish roots.


I'm talking about people who see themselves as culturally Irish, perhaps play Gaelic sports, maybe even speak the Irish language... but feel comfortable living in the United Kingdom as Irishmen. Their Irish identity is respected and they can get on with life as everyone else in the rest of the UK (and the RoI) does.

What do you have to say to that?



Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

02 Jul 2012, 6:10 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
They neglect their Irish roots.


I'm talking about people who see themselves as culturally Irish, perhaps play Gaelic sports, maybe even speak the Irish language... but feel comfortable living in the United Kingdom as Irishmen. Their Irish identity is respected and they can get on with life as everyone else in the rest of the UK (and the RoI) does.

What do you have to say to that?


I mean why? They where oppressed by those people. For 800 years why would they want. To have anything to do with the UK. I mean why remain in the UK when historically. They viewed them as sub-human.



DefinitelyKmart
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 4 Apr 2012
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 262

03 Jul 2012, 10:53 am

oh i get whats going on here, either jokers troll in badly. Or he actually thinks he's irish when he isn't at all, the latter seems more likely. tell me this, if the people of ni neglect they're irish roots, then your family did the whole hog and left ireland. you aren't anything to do with ireland just have some delusional idea that you are because of a surname, with half cooked facts and wishful thinking, irish anglo relations have never viewed either as sub human. But following jokers lead, i once met a man from palestine from now on i will support the palestinian cause...



puddingmouse
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,777
Location: Cottonopolis

03 Jul 2012, 11:24 am

No, the English did at one point view the Irish as subhuman. The invasion of Ireland by Cromwell's forces led to the death of roughly half the population of Ireland. Granted, it was mostly through starvation, but there were a number of massacres (not to say the other side was completely innocent). Nevertheless, there was an attitude amongst the Parliamentarian forces in Ireland that was lacking in the English campaign. It was a callous disregard for life and an increased bloodlust. It's been argued that it's an early case of genocide, and I don't disagree.

Also, during the 19th century, at the height of the British empire, there were a great deal of pseudo- scientific theories going around about how nthe Irish were 'less evolved'. More ape-like:
Image

However, Joker doesn't know what he's talking about and he is all-American, with only Irish ancestry.


_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.