Feminism at its best by gorillas!

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7dKHlwfUIE[/youtube]

It's just a plain, cold fact, Arrant. There was a time when humans did not get married and lived pretty much like animals as hunter/gatherers. Social construct was loose and one woman might have mated with several men or it could have been, the toughest man in the group mated with all the women and would not let others mate. This happens in the animal world. Got nothing to do with isms and schisms. It's just about how people behaved when they were wilder. Why would you think Hunter/gatherer is about feminism? There would have been one guy who considered himself tougher and stronger than all the other guys, just like with other mammal groups. He would have been the leader, pretty much, and there might have been many challenges from other males for role as leader.

AP, you present a false dichotomy. Stating that Aboriginal women might not have suffered under institutionalized gang rape is not the same as claiming that they lived under some sort of feminist utopia.

Back in my college days, I recall a documentary made about South African Bushmen, which was about as close to a genuine hunter gatherer way of life you were going to find in the modern world. While gender roles were not the point of the film, it was obvious that there were divisions of labor based on sex, and that the men were in fact the ones in charge. Never was there any example of women choosing whatever man she wanted. And in fact, as the question of monogamy never came up, I have to assume it was practiced even by such a primitive society, otherwise the documentarians probably would have drawn attention to it.
Incidentally, in another class I had taken called Old World Archeology, when the question came up concerning the whole "When God Was A woman" craze at the time, our professor - who was in fact a woman - called it "feminist nonsense," saying that there was not a bit of evidence to support it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

*wonders if AP likes being yelled at by women*

True, the two are not mutually exclusive. It is entirely likely that the woman thoroughly enjoyed the gang-bang. It was a cultural expectation.

However, postulating that the hunter-gatherer woman enjoyed the gang-bang would not be well received in modern society. It would threaten those of us who regard women as the property of men in patriarchal social structures., by suggesting that the women were not being completely dominated and subordinated, and that their reproductive capacity was not being totally manipulated by men. For the modern Feminists, it would suggest that hunter-gatherer women were not necessarily seeking serial-monogamous relationships, and would counter the cherished belief that women who participate in filmed gang-bangs and bukake are not enjoying themselves in the least.

Back then things were different than they are in modern society so this gang bang idea might not have existed. Since it could have been common for a woman to have more than one mate, or it could have been the opposite, who knows, only one man had several women and other men became eunichs or something, it was the custom and the norm, not the exception. It would not have been looked at scornfully like it is today. It is considered a bit taboo in our society.

Sometimes documentary makers want to push their own agenda, or present the film in such a way that they can sell it to their audiences. It used to be that documentary makers would never include footage of animals humping. Now, it is very much expected. Human sexuality is still a taboo subject.

Most people see their dogs humping at home so they are desensitized to it.

Isn't that the definition of a troll? It's probably the only time he ever gets female attention.

Wrt. cultural expectations: women did not evolve with vaginas of steel. The idea that women enjoy gang rape in any context, whether enculturated to expect it or not, is as unrealistic as the idea that women enjoy the jackhammer sex portrayed in a lot of porn.

I find it far more likely that Western men invented the 'aboriginal women like being kidnapped and gang-raped by men' idea because they were kidnapping and gang-raping aboriginal women, than that such a practice was established and frequent within aboriginal tribes.

You have to look at it realistically and not from the viewpoint of the social mores in your culture. Being wilder is much rougher than being in a cultured society or civilization, for the most part. Look at how these herd animals live. Female grazers go to a field, give birth, and immediately leave. Can you imagine how difficult that is? Yet these are wild animals and this is just the way they exist and they have lived like that for thousands of years.
With humans, something similar might have existed hundreds of thousands of years ago. They were tough like other wild species and they didn't question things and think as much. They just acted. Do you see wild animals sitting around doing a lot of thinking? You cannot apply today's standards to them.

The thing is, though, I can't imagine humans, no matter how primitive, not doing a lot of thinking. Even the most primitive society are kings of the world because of their smarts.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Depends on how far back you go. If you're going far enough back that our skulls and bipedal stance didn't make it as dangerous to give birth as it is for modern humans (such that we could 'give birth in a field,' without much problem), our behavior was probably a lot like that of either chimpanzees or bonobos. Bonobos have sex with anything that moves, but it's pretty much mutually consensual; chimpanzees are aggressive and jealous, as well as violent with neighboring tribes, but the pretty much only mate when the female is in estrus - and the head male generally guards that privilege without sharing, if he can.

I think that we're talking about modern humans, though.

I can imagine them not doing a lot of thinking lol. Very easily. Just acting in a small, cliquey group.

No.


Yes.


http://familyguy.wikia.com/wiki/Steel_Vaginas


What the heck is "jackhammer sex?"

I was thinking that rather than "gang rape" per se, the Aboriginals may have been engaging in something more akin to consensual group sex. Some women may enjoy being the center of attention, or servicing a number of men at once.

In a footnote in Mark Twain's Letters from the Earth, a Hawaiian princess' group-coital talents were eulogized:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/twa ... OTEPUBLISH




That would be the preferred Feminist story line. I'm sure that the Aboriginals figured out how to perform coitus long before the English arrived. Rape is apparently quite common among Australian Aboriginals, of whom many don't know that rape is illegal.

And, dolphins also apparently consider our women to be luscious sex objects.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa0BervrwMc[/youtube]

Did this dolphin learn this behaviour by watching Western Men rape women and female dolphins in the ocean? Or, is he just doing what cums naturally?

I am talking about the Hunter/Gatherers that existed before the Egyptian Dynasties, Sumerians, Babylonians, ancient Chinese, Mayans. Incas, Anasazi, or anyone else who created a civilization out of urban dwellings concentrated in one area, more or less. They would live more like wild chimpanzees than modern man. You could call mankind existing in urban areas modern, although mores do change over the years, or, they have in the Western world.