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Is organised religion a general enemy of humanity?

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GGPViper
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05 Feb 2013, 11:20 am

ruveyn wrote:

Tequila wrote:

trollcatman wrote:

That's one (of many) things that would keep me from becoming muslim, not being allowed to drink or eat pork.

Lots of Muslims do drink, they're just not especially interested in the religious element of it but still keep the cultural/family side.

According to Christopher Hitchins, Johnny Walker Scotch is the favorite brand of Scotch in the House of Saud.

ruveyn

All that oil money, and they choose *Johnny Walker*? :scratch:

:scratch:

puddingmouse
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05 Feb 2013, 12:48 pm

GGPViper wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Tequila wrote:

trollcatman wrote:

That's one (of many) things that would keep me from becoming muslim, not being allowed to drink or eat pork.

Lots of Muslims do drink, they're just not especially interested in the religious element of it but still keep the cultural/family side.

According to Christopher Hitchins, Johnny Walker Scotch is the favorite brand of Scotch in the House of Saud.

ruveyn

All that oil money, and they choose *Johnny Walker*? :scratch:

:scratch:

You can't buy good taste, obviously.

salad
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05 Feb 2013, 1:22 pm

TallyMan wrote:

salad wrote:

TallyMan wrote:

Tequila wrote:

Is organised religion a general enemy of humanity?.

In general I say yes; organised religion holds mankind back in many ways and its dogma is often used to repress various groups of people and especially those who don't share exactly the same flavour of each religion. I think Islam is the worst religion of them all in this regard, it suppresses free thought the most; followed by Christianity. Those two religions have been responsible for so much bloodshed over the centuries, so much suffering. The world and humanity would be far better off without the curse of organised religion.

islam SAVEd more than it destroyed. you seem ignorant on history. go look up the golden age of Islam before hating Islam's impact on the world

I see Islam's impact on the world every day in the news. Slayings, murders, suppression, torture, beheadings, severing of hands, imprisonment for trivialities, imprisonment or death of homosexuals, extreme sexism, taxation of non-believers, book burnings, suppression of knowledge and education. Sure is a golden age of Islam now. :roll:

:roll:

Islam is a sick disease; the scourge of humanity.

propaganda. there are a lot of it, but when the news only focuses on Muslim terrorism then there's a problem. why doesn't the news show the terrorist Bashar Al Asad everyday but instead focuses solely on local extremists?? something's fishy about that.

and yes, Islam's golden age revolutionized the world. go read about it yourself. intact we were the ones who brought the europeans out of there own dark age. you should actually remember that

salad
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05 Feb 2013, 1:24 pm

MCalavera wrote:

salad wrote:

the ancient scientists. Muhammad PBUH was an illiterate beduin, uneducated, and all of a sudden sprouted out scientific miracles randomly??

You're calling them scientific miracles, but they're not. Besides, the ancient Greeks came up with much more impressive points and calculations that only in this day and age we've been able to confirm. For example, Eratosthenes ended up being quite close in his estimation of the Earth's circumference.

Definitely more impressive than saying that man is made up of water and you don't need ancient scientists to come up with such a claim. I could easily imagine laymen and shepherds making that claim out of ignorance rather than advanced scientific knowledge. :lol:

:lol:

Quote:

and the Quran mentions the big bang surah Anbiya Ayah 30-31.

I checked. Not even close.

i believe it was between verses 15-16.

In fact, verse 30 is almost copy of one of the verses in Genesis.

Oh, and the pseudo-science in those verses. :lol:

:lol:

:lol:

:lol:

Quote:

the quran isn't a science book meant to explain in details these phenomena, it's a book meant to guide us. nonetheless it still discusses scientific miracles regardless.

Yeah, such that the sky is a protected ceiling. Interesting how you didn't mention verse 32 right after those verses you listed.

Quote:

and God said we're made from clay and water and other substances.

Yeah, from clay and water and other stuff. How scientific.

Quote:

also, in surah 19 God talks about how the frontal lobe is used for planning, which is true. how did he know?? remember, an uneducated illiterate beduin. not a scientist. not a thinker. what are the odds??

We'll discuss the odds as soon as you tell me which verse.

i believe it was verses 15-16.

salad
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05 Feb 2013, 1:36 pm

TallyMan wrote:

salad wrote:

TallyMan wrote:

Tequila wrote:

Is organised religion a general enemy of humanity?.

In general I say yes; organised religion holds mankind back in many ways and its dogma is often used to repress various groups of people and especially those who don't share exactly the same flavour of each religion. I think Islam is the worst religion of them all in this regard, it suppresses free thought the most; followed by Christianity. Those two religions have been responsible for so much bloodshed over the centuries, so much suffering. The world and humanity would be far better off without the curse of organised religion.

islam SAVEd more than it destroyed. you seem ignorant on history. go look up the golden age of Islam before hating Islam's impact on the world

I see Islam's impact on the world every day in the news. Slayings, murders, suppression, torture, beheadings, severing of hands, imprisonment for trivialities, imprisonment or death of homosexuals, extreme sexism, taxation of non-believers, book burnings, suppression of knowledge and education. Sure is a golden age of Islam now. :roll:

:roll:

Islam is a sick disease; the scourge of humanity.

slayings:

forbidden in Islam unless in war or penalty of a crime worth death.

murders: forbidden. and haven't you heard of the 1.5 million murdered in Iraq because of American troops. there you go.

torture:

not even the Prophet allowed that towards the most vile of his enemies. We're talking about the same enemies who tortured his followers. And my response: don't. be. a. hypocrite. haven't you heard of Guantanamo Bay?? there you go. proves the double standard we have here.

severing of hands: simple: DON'T STEAL!!

Taxation on disbelievers: jizyah tax guarantees safety and protection for every non Muslim citizen muslims pay zakah.

book burnings: you mean like the one done in Florida by that pastor to our Quran??

suppression of knowledge: we gave knowledge to the world. we brought the europeans out of their dark age. we translated thousands of books by the greeks and revived many ancient works. we developed Algebra. we developed many medicines. built planetariums. what more do you want.

GGPViper
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05 Feb 2013, 1:48 pm

salad wrote:

propaganda. there are a lot of it, but when the news only focuses on Muslim terrorism then there's a problem. why doesn't the news show the terrorist Bashar Al Asad everyday but instead focuses solely on local extremists?? something's fishy about that.

Umm, last time I checked, Bashar Al-Assad is a Muslim.

salad wrote:

and yes, Islam's golden age revolutionized the world. go read about it yourself. intact we were the ones who brought the europeans out of there own dark age. you should actually remember that

How many scientific Nobel prizes have been awarded to Muslims?

The answer is 2 (Abdus Salam and Ahmed Zewail) according to most people. The answer is 1 according to Mainstream Islam, because here Abdus Salam is not considered a "real" Muslim by being Ahmadiyya.

Now, how many Jewish scientific Nobel laureates are there? 136 in the classical fields (Physics, Chemistry and Psysiology & Medicine) + 29 in Economics.

If you have to go back more than 750 years to find Islamic scientific excellence, then maybe the religion isn't doing to well...

Oh, and...

salad wrote:

severing of hands: simple: DON'T STEAL!!

Although Les Miserables is a work of fiction, you might want to read/watch it anyway.

salad
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05 Feb 2013, 1:53 pm

GGPViper wrote:

salad wrote:

propaganda. there are a lot of it, but when the news only focuses on Muslim terrorism then there's a problem. why doesn't the news show the terrorist Bashar Al Asad everyday but instead focuses solely on local extremists?? something's fishy about that.

Umm, last time I checked, Bashar Al-Assad is a Muslim.

salad wrote:

and yes, Islam's golden age revolutionized the world. go read about it yourself. intact we were the ones who brought the europeans out of there own dark age. you should actually remember that

How many scientific Nobel prizes have been awarded to Muslims?

The answer is 2 (Abdus Salam and Ahmed Zewail) according to most people. The answer is 1 according to Mainstream Islam, because here Abdus Salam is not considered a "real" Muslim by being Ahmadiyya.

Now, how many Jewish scientific Nobel laureates are there? 136 in the classical fields (Physics, Chemistry and Psysiology & Medicine) + 29 in Economics.

Oh, and...

salad wrote:

severing of hands: simple: DON'T STEAL!!

Although Les Miserables is a work of fiction, you might want to read/watch it anyway.

every civilization has its dark age, and this era is our dark age. I'm honestly ashamed of all these wars and killings, i really wish our golden age never ended hundreds of years ago. we were the top of the world, and now we've dropped to the bottom. if i could somehow make our golden age come back i would. sadly it's not that simple.

TallyMan
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05 Feb 2013, 2:43 pm

salad wrote:

suppression of knowledge: we gave knowledge to the world. we brought the europeans out of their dark age. we translated thousands of books by the greeks and revived many ancient works. we developed Algebra. we developed many medicines. built planetariums. what more do you want.

All in the past. Today Islam forbids certain types of knowledge. When I was doing my science degree at university (a number of years ago) there was a small group of foreign students (Muslims from Malaysia) attending for the high quality of the tuition. Their religion forbade them to learn about evolution and the biochemistry involved with it and the mechanisms of evolution. As a group they all skipped all of those science classes thus allowing them to continue in their ignorance believing in creationism rather than understanding the fact of evolution. That is elevating ignorance to an entirely new level. It is wilful ignorance. Islam is stuck in the dark ages.

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salad
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05 Feb 2013, 3:19 pm

TallyMan wrote:

salad wrote:

suppression of knowledge: we gave knowledge to the world. we brought the europeans out of their dark age. we translated thousands of books by the greeks and revived many ancient works. we developed Algebra. we developed many medicines. built planetariums. what more do you want.

All in the past. Today Islam forbids certain types of knowledge. When I was doing my science degree at university (a number of years ago) there was a small group of foreign students (Muslims from Malaysia) attending for the high quality of the tuition. Their religion forbade them to learn about evolution and the biochemistry involved with it and the mechanisms of evolution. As a group they all skipped all of those science classes thus allowing them to continue in their ignorance believing in creationism rather than understanding the fact of evolution. That is elevating ignorance to an entirely new level. It is wilful ignorance. Islam is stuck in the dark ages.

Islam actually tells us not to believe in the theory of evolution, but there are aspects of evolution that we believe. we believe in some and reject some. but it's actually beneficial to learn about it to debate other atheists about the topic. and excuse me, but evolution is a THEORY thus not everything about it is correct. we believe in microevolution and other parts of evolution, but no way do we believe that we came from monkeys or any of that nonsense. many scientists have proved his theory as a fallacy and incorrect so why must we accept it as true? a theory isn't a law. denying the law of gravity is totally different than denying the THEORY of evolution.

GGPViper
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05 Feb 2013, 3:29 pm

salad wrote:

TallyMan wrote:

salad wrote:

suppression of knowledge: we gave knowledge to the world. we brought the europeans out of their dark age. we translated thousands of books by the greeks and revived many ancient works. we developed Algebra. we developed many medicines. built planetariums. what more do you want.

All in the past. Today Islam forbids certain types of knowledge. When I was doing my science degree at university (a number of years ago) there was a small group of foreign students (Muslims from Malaysia) attending for the high quality of the tuition. Their religion forbade them to learn about evolution and the biochemistry involved with it and the mechanisms of evolution. As a group they all skipped all of those science classes thus allowing them to continue in their ignorance believing in creationism rather than understanding the fact of evolution. That is elevating ignorance to an entirely new level. It is wilful ignorance. Islam is stuck in the dark ages.

Islam actually tells us not to believe in the theory of evolution, but there are aspects of evolution that we believe. we believe in some and reject some. but it's actually beneficial to learn about it to debate other atheists about the topic. and excuse me, but evolution is a THEORY thus not everything about it is correct. we believe in microevolution and other parts of evolution, but no way do we believe that we came from monkeys or any of that nonsense. many scientists have proved his theory as a fallacy and incorrect so why must we accept it as true? a theory isn't a law. denying the law of gravity is totally different than denying the THEORY of evolution.

Evolution is not a theory, it is a fact.

This topic has been debated several times before in this forum by people much more experienced and educated than you, salad, and *every time* the arguments against evolution have been annihilated.

Grow up.

Last edited by GGPViper on 05 Feb 2013, 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Surfman
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05 Feb 2013, 3:32 pm

Funniest thing I saw was a woman wearing a burqa posing for a photo
The wind was blowing toward her so
her garment was fully stuck to her body
revealing breasts, big fat stomach and very bushy pubic mound

I wonder if she was smiling

TheBicyclingGuitarist
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05 Feb 2013, 3:32 pm

salad wrote:

Islam actually tells us not to believe in the theory of evolution, but there are aspects of evolution that we believe. we believe in some and reject some. but it's actually beneficial to learn about it to debate other atheists about the topic. and excuse me, but evolution is a THEORY thus not everything about it is correct. we believe in microevolution and other parts of evolution, but no way do we believe that we came from monkeys or any of that nonsense. many scientists have proved his theory as a fallacy and incorrect so why must we accept it as true? a theory isn't a law. denying the law of gravity is totally different than denying the THEORY of evolution.

That is incredibly IGNORANT and just plain wrong. Evolution is as much a fact of nature as gravity is, and we actually understand more about the mechanisms of evolution than we do for gravity. You also apparently don't understand what theory means in science. A theory is stronger than a law because instead of being merely descriptive a theory provides testable predictions. A theory such as evolution must be supported by all the evidence and contradicted by none, or else it is modified or discarded. Evolution quite possibly has more evidence of more different types supporting it than any other idea in science. Anyone who tells you otherwise is misinformed or lying to you.

There was a conference recently in England I read about in the news where many important Muslim clerics discussed this topic, and for a change there was some openness to acknowledging REALITY! Of course there are still some fundamentalist idiots who insist on denying what is demonstrably real.

salad, IF you are a sincere seeker of truth you really should educate yourself on this subject instead of spreading misinformation.

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TallyMan
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05 Feb 2013, 3:35 pm

salad wrote:

TallyMan wrote:

salad wrote:

suppression of knowledge: we gave knowledge to the world. we brought the europeans out of their dark age. we translated thousands of books by the greeks and revived many ancient works. we developed Algebra. we developed many medicines. built planetariums. what more do you want.

All in the past. Today Islam forbids certain types of knowledge. When I was doing my science degree at university (a number of years ago) there was a small group of foreign students (Muslims from Malaysia) attending for the high quality of the tuition. Their religion forbade them to learn about evolution and the biochemistry involved with it and the mechanisms of evolution. As a group they all skipped all of those science classes thus allowing them to continue in their ignorance believing in creationism rather than understanding the fact of evolution. That is elevating ignorance to an entirely new level. It is wilful ignorance. Islam is stuck in the dark ages.

Islam actually tells us not to believe in the theory of evolution, but there are aspects of evolution that we believe. we believe in some and reject some. but it's actually beneficial to learn about it to debate other atheists about the topic. and excuse me, but evolution is a THEORY thus not everything about it is correct. we believe in microevolution and other parts of evolution, but no way do we believe that we came from monkeys or any of that nonsense. many scientists have proved his theory as a fallacy and incorrect so why must we accept it as true? a theory isn't a law. denying the law of gravity is totally different than denying the THEORY of evolution.

You are incorrect. Evolution is a FACT. It is mainstream science. Your choice not to accept this as a fact just shows your ignorance of the science. And by the way... we didn't evolve from monkeys, both humans and the other species of apes evolved from a common ancestor. Just another example of the ignorance propagated by Islam (and fundamentalist Christianity). Honestly, I don't know why I'm wasting my time debating this with you. Go study science; the Koran is no substitute.

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NewDawn
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05 Feb 2013, 3:47 pm

TallyMan wrote:

When I was doing my science degree at university (a number of years ago) there was a small group of foreign students (Muslims from Malaysia) attending for the high quality of the tuition. Their religion forbade them to learn about evolution and the biochemistry involved with it and the mechanisms of evolution. As a group they all skipped all of those science classes thus allowing them to continue in their ignorance believing in creationism rather than understanding the fact of evolution. That is elevating ignorance to an entirely new level. It is wilful ignorance. Islam is stuck in the dark ages.

I witnessed the same thing when I worked at the medical faculty of the University of Amsterdam with students of Turkish and Moroccan origin. Nearly all of them skipped evolution and genetics, and even if they did attend these mandatory classes, they would refuse to answer exam questions. Needless to say, this prevented them from getting a medical degree. It proved to be impossible to convince them that evolution is fundamental to medical science.

And yes salad, evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution explains how evolution happens, but there is no question that it does happen. Medical science is where it is today precisely because of the discovery of evolution.

Venger
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05 Feb 2013, 3:54 pm

The first book of the christian Holy Bible talks about evolution in a symbolic way. That's how I interpret it at least.

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05 Feb 2013, 4:01 pm

Creationism, extraterrestials, cryptobiology, pyramidiocy ... believing in myths like these serves no purpose.

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