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It's stupid when feminists say that porn is misogynistic

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XFilesGeek
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02 Jun 2013, 3:37 am

Ann2011 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
I already posted this link once in this thread, but I'm going to do it again, because I really think you *need* to read this article about the filming of one of those "extreme" scenes, to help you get a better understanding of the type of people who make and consume that style of pornography.

Okay, I didn't go to them. I don't want to see extreme scenes. The whole vomit thing is enough for me. I think that there is a difference between fantasizing something and seeing it acted out by real people. The latter brings in a whole other element. I don't think it's good to sell some things - mainly actual harm. I don't think it's right to watch someone being harmed even if they've consented to it. But, that's just me.


So, I take it you don't watch MMA or boxing?


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Ann2011
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02 Jun 2013, 8:35 am

Dox47 wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Okay, I didn't go to them. I don't want to see extreme scenes. The whole vomit thing is enough for me. I think that there is a difference between fantasizing something and seeing it acted out by real people. The latter brings in a whole other element. I don't think it's good to sell some things - mainly actual harm. I don't think it's right to watch someone being harmed even if they've consented to it. But, that's just me.


No pictures, just narrative. The Freidersdorf article at The Atlantic even addresses your point about consent.


Okay, I read it. It was interesting. I think there are two separate acts going on when people have public sex. There is the act that is between the players and then their is the act of the audience watching. In the porn scenario, assuming the players are consenting and enjoying, I don't mind the act they perform, what bothers me is the watching. It makes me feel like the players have become less than human and that by watching I am participating in this dehumanization.



Ann2011
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02 Jun 2013, 8:37 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
I already posted this link once in this thread, but I'm going to do it again, because I really think you *need* to read this article about the filming of one of those "extreme" scenes, to help you get a better understanding of the type of people who make and consume that style of pornography.

Okay, I didn't go to them. I don't want to see extreme scenes. The whole vomit thing is enough for me. I think that there is a difference between fantasizing something and seeing it acted out by real people. The latter brings in a whole other element. I don't think it's good to sell some things - mainly actual harm. I don't think it's right to watch someone being harmed even if they've consented to it. But, that's just me.


So, I take it you don't watch MMA or boxing?


I used to. Lately not so much. I think the reality of it has become more apparent to me as I've gotten older. I really don't want to participate in the spectacle of people beating each other up. I know the fighters have a genuine passion for what they do, I just can't bear to watch it.



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02 Jun 2013, 8:39 am

Ann2011 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Okay, I didn't go to them. I don't want to see extreme scenes. The whole vomit thing is enough for me. I think that there is a difference between fantasizing something and seeing it acted out by real people. The latter brings in a whole other element. I don't think it's good to sell some things - mainly actual harm. I don't think it's right to watch someone being harmed even if they've consented to it. But, that's just me.


No pictures, just narrative. The Freidersdorf article at The Atlantic even addresses your point about consent.


Okay, I read it. It was interesting. I think there are two separate acts going on when people have public sex. There is the act that is between the players and then their is the act of the audience watching. In the porn scenario, assuming the players are consenting and enjoying, I don't mind the act they perform, what bothers me is the watching. It makes me feel like the players have become less than human and that by watching I am participating in this dehumanization.


So, you don't watch movies, or go to the theatre, either, because the actors are less than human, and you would be participating in their dehumanization by watching?



Ann2011
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02 Jun 2013, 8:47 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Okay, I didn't go to them. I don't want to see extreme scenes. The whole vomit thing is enough for me. I think that there is a difference between fantasizing something and seeing it acted out by real people. The latter brings in a whole other element. I don't think it's good to sell some things - mainly actual harm. I don't think it's right to watch someone being harmed even if they've consented to it. But, that's just me.


No pictures, just narrative. The Freidersdorf article at The Atlantic even addresses your point about consent.


Okay, I read it. It was interesting. I think there are two separate acts going on when people have public sex. There is the act that is between the players and then their is the act of the audience watching. In the porn scenario, assuming the players are consenting and enjoying, I don't mind the act they perform, what bothers me is the watching. It makes me feel like the players have become less than human and that by watching I am participating in this dehumanization.


So, you don't watch movies, or go to the theatre, either, because the actors are less than human, and you would be participating in their dehumanization by watching?

Depends on what they're doing. The difference with actors is that they are pretending, they are not actually living out the actions. In short, it's fake. That's not to say that some movies, etc. aren't dehumanizing, but at least with actors it remains in the theoretical rather than the realm of the real.



thomas81
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02 Jun 2013, 10:37 am

Watch this video before you make up your mind.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRZZAuPyG7I[/youtube]


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Ann2011
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02 Jun 2013, 10:49 am

I made it to 7min 3sec . . . this is why I like anime.



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02 Jun 2013, 11:20 am

thomas81 wrote:
Watch this video before you make up your mind.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRZZAuPyG7I[/youtube]


I think I'll stick to amateur stuff after watching that. The porn industry sucks (sorry for the unfunny pun.)


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thomas81
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02 Jun 2013, 11:36 am

I'm not in favour of banning porn (freedom of creative expression and so on) however there can be no excuse for the abuse and inadequate treatment of porn actors, especially female ones. They need to unionise and demand the removal of the more sinister elements of the industry. Also only do more extreme stuff like anal, bukkake or watersports with women who are genuinely consenting.


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MCalavera
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02 Jun 2013, 11:41 am

thomas81 wrote:
I'm not in favour of banning porn (freedom of creative expression and so on) however there can be no excuse for the abuse and inadequate treatment of porn actors, especially female ones. They need to unionise and demand the removal of the more sinister elements of the industry. Also only do more extreme stuff like anal, bukkake or watersports with women who are genuinely consenting.


Finally I read a post I agree with you on.



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03 Jun 2013, 2:23 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
I already posted this link once in this thread, but I'm going to do it again, because I really think you *need* to read this article about the filming of one of those "extreme" scenes, to help you get a better understanding of the type of people who make and consume that style of pornography.

Okay, I didn't go to them. I don't want to see extreme scenes. The whole vomit thing is enough for me. I think that there is a difference between fantasizing something and seeing it acted out by real people. The latter brings in a whole other element. I don't think it's good to sell some things - mainly actual harm. I don't think it's right to watch someone being harmed even if they've consented to it. But, that's just me.


So, I take it you don't watch MMA or boxing?

I don't. Nor egregiously violent movies. I work in a hospital; I see enough real-life gore, and real-life consequences to violence, that seeing it glorified is repulsive to me.
I don't think such things should be banned, but voluntarily participating in something like that - where you *know* that you're going to be hurt, as opposed to something like bungee jumping that's merely dangerous, but not automatically damaging - strides close to the line of a 5150.



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03 Jun 2013, 3:03 am

Let's start our own egalitarian porn here on WP, where women squirt on men's faces like the other way around.



Dox47
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03 Jun 2013, 4:20 am

LKL wrote:
I don't think such things should be banned, but voluntarily participating in something like that - where you *know* that you're going to be hurt, as opposed to something like bungee jumping that's merely dangerous, but not automatically damaging - strides close to the line of a 5150.


I wouldn't characterize it that way, I mean you're going to experience pain in any number of sports, but injury is not a certainty, even in boxing or MMA. I think you actually see more long term injuries in football, but that doesn't get stigmatized the way the sparring type sports do.


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03 Jun 2013, 4:29 am

Seeing some of the comments so far in this thread, I figured I might just post a link to this recent study:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hom ... aged-goods

From the abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23167939

"The damaged goods hypothesis posits that female performers in the adult entertainment industry have higher rates of childhood sexual abuse (CSA), psychological problems, and drug use compared to the typical woman. The present study compared the self-reports of 177 porn actresses to a sample of women matched on age, ethnicity, and marital status. Comparisons were conducted on sexual behaviors and attitudes, self-esteem, quality of life, and drug use. Porn actresses were more likely to identify as bisexual, first had sex at an earlier age, had more sexual partners, were more concerned about contracting a sexually transmitted disease (STD), and enjoyed sex more than the matched sample, although there were no differences in incidence of CSA. In terms of psychological characteristics, porn actresses had higher levels of self-esteem, positive feelings, social support, sexual satisfaction, and spirituality compared to the matched group. Last, female performers were more likely to have ever used 10 different types of drugs compared to the comparison group. A discriminant function analysis was able to correctly classify 83% of the participants concerning whether they were a porn actress or member of the matched sample. These findings did not provide support for the damaged goods hypothesis."



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03 Jun 2013, 4:44 am

nessa238 wrote:
In my opinion there's no point debating this issue with people who like porn, as the very fact that a person likes watching porn indicates a course, insensitive attitude to life in general, hence you are not going to relate to the nuances of the argument or care about what happens to the people involved.

All I would say is that people ought to watch the film 'Requiem for a Dream', which depicts the often brutal reality for people involved in the porn and sex industries. If you can watch the last scene of that film and not feel sickened then there's no hope for you in my opinion as it's designed to be shocking and I would put money on all the porn-watchers not batting an eyelid at it as their sensibilities will have been hardened.


And you demonstrate a tendency to be judgmental, uncaring, and rather daft with that first statement. What's life like in black and white?

Shocker films are just that- shocker films. Back away from fiction and bring some reality in here.


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03 Jun 2013, 5:06 am

GGPViper wrote:
Seeing some of the comments so far in this thread, I figured I might just post a link to this recent study:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hom ... aged-goods

From the abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23167939

"The damaged goods hypothesis posits that female performers in the adult entertainment industry have higher rates of childhood sexual abuse (CSA), psychological problems, and drug use compared to the typical woman. The present study compared the self-reports of 177 porn actresses to a sample of women matched on age, ethnicity, and marital status. Comparisons were conducted on sexual behaviors and attitudes, self-esteem, quality of life, and drug use. Porn actresses were more likely to identify as bisexual, first had sex at an earlier age, had more sexual partners, were more concerned about contracting a sexually transmitted disease (STD), and enjoyed sex more than the matched sample, although there were no differences in incidence of CSA. In terms of psychological characteristics, porn actresses had higher levels of self-esteem, positive feelings, social support, sexual satisfaction, and spirituality compared to the matched group. Last, female performers were more likely to have ever used 10 different types of drugs compared to the comparison group. A discriminant function analysis was able to correctly classify 83% of the participants concerning whether they were a porn actress or member of the matched sample. These findings did not provide support for the damaged goods hypothesis."


I'm going to check the full text to see what they mean exactly by "typical woman" and how they measured "self-esteem". Something just doesn't add up right.