23 Sep 2014, 7:20 pm
Raptor wrote:
/\
More charges of racism. Do you actually know any mainstream conservatives?
And as far as border security goes, do you and other "open-border" liberals leave the outside doors of you homes open or at least unlocked all the time?
More charges of racism. Do you actually know any mainstream conservatives?
And as far as border security goes, do you and other "open-border" liberals leave the outside doors of you homes open or at least unlocked all the time?
Kraichgauer wrote:
I know plenty of mainstream conservatives, and I know how their voices are drowned out by the radical right minority because the conservative leadership fear the latter - minority though they be.
If the comparatively few far right jackbooted racist extremists had the stranglehold on the country that you make it out to be Obama would never have even been allowed to run. I find the left's delusions about the far right and their grip on everything to be hysterically funny yet pathetic. If I were that paranoid about the far left my vanity would never allow me to admit it.Quote:
And no, I don't leave my doors unlocked, and I don't support open borders. I just don't think our immigration policy should be guided by people's baser instincts,
Oh please!
Do you really think that if Mexico was more like the US or Canada in terms of standard of living we'd want to keep them out? That we''d feel the need to keep them out?
You and your fixation on racism.
Quote:
and that we can afford to drop the legalism to show kindness to fearful children where kindness is called for.
"Think of the children" in other words. Whenever I hear that I tend to question the sincerity of it and look for the ulterior motive that's probably being slid though.
Gotta love the attempt to tug on the heartstrings you love to tell us we don't have.
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,678
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
23 Sep 2014, 8:22 pm
Raptor wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\
More charges of racism. Do you actually know any mainstream conservatives?
And as far as border security goes, do you and other "open-border" liberals leave the outside doors of you homes open or at least unlocked all the time?
More charges of racism. Do you actually know any mainstream conservatives?
And as far as border security goes, do you and other "open-border" liberals leave the outside doors of you homes open or at least unlocked all the time?
Kraichgauer wrote:
I know plenty of mainstream conservatives, and I know how their voices are drowned out by the radical right minority because the conservative leadership fear the latter - minority though they be.
If the comparatively few far right jackbooted racist extremists had the stranglehold on the country that you make it out to be Obama would never have even been allowed to run. I find the left's delusions about the far right and their grip on everything to be hysterically funny yet pathetic. If I were that paranoid about the far left my vanity would never allow me to admit it.Quote:
And no, I don't leave my doors unlocked, and I don't support open borders. I just don't think our immigration policy should be guided by people's baser instincts,
Oh please!
Do you really think that if Mexico was more like the US or Canada in terms of standard of living we'd want to keep them out? That we''d feel the need to keep them out?
You and your fixation on racism.
Quote:
and that we can afford to drop the legalism to show kindness to fearful children where kindness is called for.
"Think of the children" in other words. Whenever I hear that I tend to question the sincerity of it and look for the ulterior motive that's probably being slid though. Gotta love the attempt to tug on the heartstrings you love to tell us we don't have.
Oh Lord forbid that I think of the children, or that I abhor racism!
Jacoby
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23 Sep 2014, 9:08 pm
People should have the right to self determination, if the people of a certain state or whatever want to go their own way then I don't see what the argument can be against it. We support that overseas mostly... Ugh... Sometimes.... When it fits our strategic interests... 
Decentralization of power is a good thing, some places might do things a way I don't agree with but you can't control everyone and shouldn't want to. If your way of government, your way of life is superior then it will speak for itself and they will follow or split apart if it doesn't represent the will of the people.
23 Sep 2014, 9:29 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Oh Lord forbid that I think of the children,
But do you really or is it just a tactic to shame people into hiding their opposition to the immigration policy changes you'd like to see implemented? Can't shame me because I pride myself on my heartlessness.
Now, if you replace the word children with dogs that's entirely different.
Quote:
or that I abhor racism!
You make a show if it, though. Not just that but homophobia, too.
I must be wearing you down. Your replies are shorter and you're skipping things.
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,678
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
23 Sep 2014, 9:52 pm
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Oh Lord forbid that I think of the children,
But do you really or is it just a tactic to shame people into hiding their opposition to the immigration policy changes you'd like to see implemented? Can't shame me because I pride myself on my heartlessness.
Now, if you replace the word children with dogs that's entirely different.
Quote:
or that I abhor racism!
You make a show if it, though. Not just that but homophobia, too. I must be wearing you down. Your replies are shorter and you're skipping things.
No such luck in wearing me down, as I've had to run around all day, then watched a movie over dinner, so I've been busy. Now I'm waiting for Agents Of Shield to start in ten minutes or so.
Well, if dogs ever flock to the American border, I promise I'll stand with you to let them in.
But the simple fact is, being a dad changes a whole lot of perspective when it comes to children.
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,678
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
23 Sep 2014, 9:59 pm
Jacoby wrote:
People should have the right to self determination, if the people of a certain state or whatever want to go their own way then I don't see what the argument can be against it. We support that overseas mostly... Ugh... Sometimes.... When it fits our strategic interests... Decentralization of power is a good thing, some places might do things a way I don't agree with but you can't control everyone and shouldn't want to. If your way of government, your way of life is superior then it will speak for itself and they will follow or split apart if it doesn't represent the will of the people.
Decentralization of power is a good thing, some places might do things a way I don't agree with but you can't control everyone and shouldn't want to. If your way of government, your way of life is superior then it will speak for itself and they will follow or split apart if it doesn't represent the will of the people.You might be able to make that argument when one group is generally terrorized for ethnic or religious reasons by a dominant group in a country, but can you seriously make that argument in regard to the United States, especially when speaking about white southerners, who had controlled the three branches of government, despite their lower population numbers prior to the Civil War? Can you honestly make that argument for anyone crying for secession in this country today? And what about those people in seceding areas who are loyal to their nation state, as was the case of plenty of white southerners living inside the Confederacy? Are their interests to be ignored?
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,971
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
23 Sep 2014, 10:07 pm
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
? The hammock: It is what it is and was never meant to be a hammock. Lazy is able-bodied people that won?t work even in the best of economic times under some excuse or another.
? Taxes: See what I wrote about the hammock
? Civil rights except gun rights which are still civil rights, just not the ones you like. I?d be a lot less critical of all the screeching about civil rights if so many of the civil rights activists weren't anti-gun.
? Borders: Let me tell you the big difference between the average Mexican and Canadian: MONEY! Canadians come to the states they bring dinero and spend it here. Some Canadians own winter homes in the sun belt and pay taxes on them. Our jails aren't full of Canadians, either. When Americans go to Canada we take dinero with us and spend it. Some Americans own property for hunting and fishing in Canada and pay taxes on it. Canadian jails aren't full of Americans. There are mutual benefits to Americans and Canadians visiting each other's countries.
WTF does the average Mexican bring to the US? Well, it?s not what the Canadians bring, I can tell you that much.
If Mexico sucks so bad and there?s such and income disparity between them and the US that?s Mexico?s problem to sort out, not ours.
It speaks volumes when so many Mexican Americans are against illegal immigration from Mexico and many of them work for INS and the Border Patrol.
? Taxes: See what I wrote about the hammock
? Civil rights except gun rights which are still civil rights, just not the ones you like. I?d be a lot less critical of all the screeching about civil rights if so many of the civil rights activists weren't anti-gun.
? Borders: Let me tell you the big difference between the average Mexican and Canadian: MONEY! Canadians come to the states they bring dinero and spend it here. Some Canadians own winter homes in the sun belt and pay taxes on them. Our jails aren't full of Canadians, either. When Americans go to Canada we take dinero with us and spend it. Some Americans own property for hunting and fishing in Canada and pay taxes on it. Canadian jails aren't full of Americans. There are mutual benefits to Americans and Canadians visiting each other's countries.
WTF does the average Mexican bring to the US? Well, it?s not what the Canadians bring, I can tell you that much.
If Mexico sucks so bad and there?s such and income disparity between them and the US that?s Mexico?s problem to sort out, not ours.
It speaks volumes when so many Mexican Americans are against illegal immigration from Mexico and many of them work for INS and the Border Patrol.
Believe what you want, but the rest of us will always be here to stick up for the needy and the shunned.
So there.
Not much of a rebuttal, considering.....
And it's not about whether or not to help the needy and the shunned but how to go about doing it effectively.
I don't think I could give a better answer than Sweatleaf.
Her answer was predictable.
It also doesn't address my reply to you concerning illegal immigration.
Predictable in the sense I am consistant
Sweetleaf
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Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,971
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
23 Sep 2014, 10:11 pm
Jacoby
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Age: 33
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23 Sep 2014, 11:25 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
People should have the right to self determination, if the people of a certain state or whatever want to go their own way then I don't see what the argument can be against it. We support that overseas mostly... Ugh... Sometimes.... When it fits our strategic interests... Decentralization of power is a good thing, some places might do things a way I don't agree with but you can't control everyone and shouldn't want to. If your way of government, your way of life is superior then it will speak for itself and they will follow or split apart if it doesn't represent the will of the people.
Decentralization of power is a good thing, some places might do things a way I don't agree with but you can't control everyone and shouldn't want to. If your way of government, your way of life is superior then it will speak for itself and they will follow or split apart if it doesn't represent the will of the people.You might be able to make that argument when one group is generally terrorized for ethnic or religious reasons by a dominant group in a country, but can you seriously make that argument in regard to the United States, especially when speaking about white southerners, who had controlled the three branches of government, despite their lower population numbers prior to the Civil War? Can you honestly make that argument for anyone crying for secession in this country today? And what about those people in seceding areas who are loyal to their nation state, as was the case of plenty of white southerners living inside the Confederacy? Are their interests to be ignored?
The Confederacy was a slave state that didn't represent the views of the majority of its population, I'm not going to argue about them.
As for making the case for secession today, there a lot of reasons why one might want to separate from the federal government. If the majority of the population wants to split off for any reason then let them, I do not care. Scotland just had a referendum on independence where over 90% of the country came out to vote and the majority decided to stay in apart of their union but a significant enough amount of people supported independence that the UK got the message and will make concessions to make a fairer more equal union. Secession should be option to keep as these unions honest; they have to respect the wants, needs, and beliefs of all their member states. The cliche saying goes "if you love her, let her go", it has to consensual relationship where each benefits, you have to have the ability to choose. . Preventing peaceful democratic change only makes violent confrontation inevitable so it is best for all those involved to avoid that.
As for those left behind that oppose independence or secession that aren't in the majority, I suppose the same that happens if the reverse was true. This new state or whatever will have to respect their beliefs and try to rectify their concerns they may have.
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,678
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
23 Sep 2014, 11:50 pm
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
People should have the right to self determination, if the people of a certain state or whatever want to go their own way then I don't see what the argument can be against it. We support that overseas mostly... Ugh... Sometimes.... When it fits our strategic interests... Decentralization of power is a good thing, some places might do things a way I don't agree with but you can't control everyone and shouldn't want to. If your way of government, your way of life is superior then it will speak for itself and they will follow or split apart if it doesn't represent the will of the people.
Decentralization of power is a good thing, some places might do things a way I don't agree with but you can't control everyone and shouldn't want to. If your way of government, your way of life is superior then it will speak for itself and they will follow or split apart if it doesn't represent the will of the people.You might be able to make that argument when one group is generally terrorized for ethnic or religious reasons by a dominant group in a country, but can you seriously make that argument in regard to the United States, especially when speaking about white southerners, who had controlled the three branches of government, despite their lower population numbers prior to the Civil War? Can you honestly make that argument for anyone crying for secession in this country today? And what about those people in seceding areas who are loyal to their nation state, as was the case of plenty of white southerners living inside the Confederacy? Are their interests to be ignored?
The Confederacy was a slave state that didn't represent the views of the majority of its population, I'm not going to argue about them.
As for making the case for secession today, there a lot of reasons why one might want to separate from the federal government. If the majority of the population wants to split off for any reason then let them, I do not care. Scotland just had a referendum on independence where over 90% of the country came out to vote and the majority decided to stay in apart of their union but a significant enough amount of people supported independence that the UK got the message and will make concessions to make a fairer more equal union. Secession should be option to keep as these unions honest; they have to respect the wants, needs, and beliefs of all their member states. The cliche saying goes "if you love her, let her go", it has to consensual relationship where each benefits, you have to have the ability to choose. . Preventing peaceful democratic change only makes violent confrontation inevitable so it is best for all those involved to avoid that.
As for those left behind that oppose independence or secession that aren't in the majority, I suppose the same that happens if the reverse was true. This new state or whatever will have to respect their beliefs and try to rectify their concerns they may have.
My point was, there should be a genuinely good reason for secession, not just because you don't happen to like certain government policies.
Thank you for agreeing with me about the Confederacy.
Jacoby
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash
24 Sep 2014, 12:07 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
People should have the right to self determination, if the people of a certain state or whatever want to go their own way then I don't see what the argument can be against it. We support that overseas mostly... Ugh... Sometimes.... When it fits our strategic interests... Decentralization of power is a good thing, some places might do things a way I don't agree with but you can't control everyone and shouldn't want to. If your way of government, your way of life is superior then it will speak for itself and they will follow or split apart if it doesn't represent the will of the people.
Decentralization of power is a good thing, some places might do things a way I don't agree with but you can't control everyone and shouldn't want to. If your way of government, your way of life is superior then it will speak for itself and they will follow or split apart if it doesn't represent the will of the people.You might be able to make that argument when one group is generally terrorized for ethnic or religious reasons by a dominant group in a country, but can you seriously make that argument in regard to the United States, especially when speaking about white southerners, who had controlled the three branches of government, despite their lower population numbers prior to the Civil War? Can you honestly make that argument for anyone crying for secession in this country today? And what about those people in seceding areas who are loyal to their nation state, as was the case of plenty of white southerners living inside the Confederacy? Are their interests to be ignored?
The Confederacy was a slave state that didn't represent the views of the majority of its population, I'm not going to argue about them.
As for making the case for secession today, there a lot of reasons why one might want to separate from the federal government. If the majority of the population wants to split off for any reason then let them, I do not care. Scotland just had a referendum on independence where over 90% of the country came out to vote and the majority decided to stay in apart of their union but a significant enough amount of people supported independence that the UK got the message and will make concessions to make a fairer more equal union. Secession should be option to keep as these unions honest; they have to respect the wants, needs, and beliefs of all their member states. The cliche saying goes "if you love her, let her go", it has to consensual relationship where each benefits, you have to have the ability to choose. . Preventing peaceful democratic change only makes violent confrontation inevitable so it is best for all those involved to avoid that.
As for those left behind that oppose independence or secession that aren't in the majority, I suppose the same that happens if the reverse was true. This new state or whatever will have to respect their beliefs and try to rectify their concerns they may have.
My point was, there should be a genuinely good reason for secession, not just because you don't happen to like certain government policies.
Thank you for agreeing with me about the Confederacy.
It's not a decision that should or would taken lightly, as mentioned Scotland just voted on independence and over 90% of the electorate turned out to have their voices heard. The will of the people should be respected, they should always have the right to choose. What good can come from fighting it?
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,678
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
24 Sep 2014, 12:21 am
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
People should have the right to self determination, if the people of a certain state or whatever want to go their own way then I don't see what the argument can be against it. We support that overseas mostly... Ugh... Sometimes.... When it fits our strategic interests... Decentralization of power is a good thing, some places might do things a way I don't agree with but you can't control everyone and shouldn't want to. If your way of government, your way of life is superior then it will speak for itself and they will follow or split apart if it doesn't represent the will of the people.
Decentralization of power is a good thing, some places might do things a way I don't agree with but you can't control everyone and shouldn't want to. If your way of government, your way of life is superior then it will speak for itself and they will follow or split apart if it doesn't represent the will of the people.You might be able to make that argument when one group is generally terrorized for ethnic or religious reasons by a dominant group in a country, but can you seriously make that argument in regard to the United States, especially when speaking about white southerners, who had controlled the three branches of government, despite their lower population numbers prior to the Civil War? Can you honestly make that argument for anyone crying for secession in this country today? And what about those people in seceding areas who are loyal to their nation state, as was the case of plenty of white southerners living inside the Confederacy? Are their interests to be ignored?
The Confederacy was a slave state that didn't represent the views of the majority of its population, I'm not going to argue about them.
As for making the case for secession today, there a lot of reasons why one might want to separate from the federal government. If the majority of the population wants to split off for any reason then let them, I do not care. Scotland just had a referendum on independence where over 90% of the country came out to vote and the majority decided to stay in apart of their union but a significant enough amount of people supported independence that the UK got the message and will make concessions to make a fairer more equal union. Secession should be option to keep as these unions honest; they have to respect the wants, needs, and beliefs of all their member states. The cliche saying goes "if you love her, let her go", it has to consensual relationship where each benefits, you have to have the ability to choose. . Preventing peaceful democratic change only makes violent confrontation inevitable so it is best for all those involved to avoid that.
As for those left behind that oppose independence or secession that aren't in the majority, I suppose the same that happens if the reverse was true. This new state or whatever will have to respect their beliefs and try to rectify their concerns they may have.
My point was, there should be a genuinely good reason for secession, not just because you don't happen to like certain government policies.
Thank you for agreeing with me about the Confederacy.
It's not a decision that should or would taken lightly, as mentioned Scotland just voted on independence and over 90% of the electorate turned out to have their voices heard. The will of the people should be respected, they should always have the right to choose. What good can come from fighting it?
I think it should be fought if the secession movement is about suppressing someone's rights, as with the Confederacy fighting to uphold slavery.
24 Sep 2014, 12:49 am
24 Sep 2014, 7:36 am
24 Sep 2014, 7:46 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
No such luck in wearing me down, as I've had to run around all day, then watched a movie over dinner, so I've been busy. Now I'm waiting for Agents Of Shield to start in ten minutes or so.
It's called multi-tasking. Quote:
Well, if dogs ever flock to the American border, I promise I'll stand with you to let them in.
More likely they'll be Mexicans in dog costumes.
Quote:
But the simple fact is, being a dad changes a whole lot of perspective when it comes to children.
Uh huh, and so was the commandant of Auschwitz where it just so happens they gassed children by the boxcar load.
24 Sep 2014, 7:58 am
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