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jwfess
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10 Feb 2015, 2:29 pm

thomas81 wrote:
jwfess wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
But unlike yourself, Galileo was actually on to something.....
They probably said something analogous to him, at the time...
And they were wrong, too.


Yes they were wrong, just like their intellectual heirs, the modern establishmentarians and opponents of progressive thought.


Your analogy is not apt.


It might make you uncomfortable, doesn't make it illegitimate.


There's a difference between traditionalism vs. progressivism and pragmatism vs. idealism.

And please, your argument doesn't make me uncomfortable, you are giving yourself way too much credit. I once considered myself "progressive" but eventually grew out of it. It's nothing I haven't encountered before.



Sweetleaf
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10 Feb 2015, 2:44 pm

Raptor wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Fnord wrote:

What people choose for themselves is their right.


If you're going to be all reductionist about it, for some other people joining ISIS might be 'their right'.

That something seems to be objectively good for us, if even only on an individual basis doesn't make it the right thing to do. Yeah, theres a reasonable possibility that you wont be put in harms way or be handed a gun and told to kill others but regardless you will be helping to facilitate these deeds to a greater or lesser degree regardless of what capacity you serve in.

I can't bring myself advocate someone joining the payroll of the industrial military complex in such a direct capacity on principal. Regardless of whether its in their personal interests or not. Obviously thats not a factor to some people here because their politics creates a bias for them.

If everyone the world over stopped enlisting the entire institution of war would grind to a halt. I think its up to citizens in developed countries to lead by example. Call that hippy leftie peacenik claptrap all you want, but it remains an inescapable truthism.


:roll: :roll:
Grow up, already


You know someone having a differing opinion than you is not a sign they need to 'grow up' its more a sign they disagree...its not any less valid than your opinion.


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Narrator
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10 Feb 2015, 4:36 pm

Lazar_Kaganovich wrote:
Narrator wrote:
Lazar_Kaganovich wrote:
You'll get to shoot a big gun, blow things up, get shot at and might even get part of you blown off or all of you blown to smithereens.

About the only injury you're likely suffer these days, with surgical drone strikes and other technology, is to your sense of value of human life.




You're assuming that every PFC in the army and marines is a drone operator. There are STILL foot soldiers my friend. Combat is not completely automated.....yet.

Hey, I'm talking likelihood, not absolutes. Compared to the numbers of allied military that were killed in previous wars, far fewer have been killed in conflict in the last 20 years, because of technology.


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ASS-P
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14 Feb 2015, 6:38 pm

...I really should point out that , iof/as I believe is the case , Aspie/AS are completely barred from the U.S. military at this time , if you join under false pretenses , not saying that you are " one of us " ~ And , considering that , especially for an under-40 , there's likely entries somewhere saying ythat you are AS ~ You are putting , therefore , yourself in danger of a dishonorab;le/LTH discharge , and therefore , all messe up-ness , as has been stated here .
(I presume the AS vets here may have joined and beendemobbed prior to the US Forces becoming as anti-AS .)



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14 Feb 2015, 8:06 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
It seems Lonely Jar has lost interest in the armed forces so it was all for naught.


If it means the brute arm of the industrial military complex is one rifle less, I'd call it a success.


A comment like that from someone like you would only encourage me to join up.


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14 Feb 2015, 10:29 pm

Raptor wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
It seems Lonely Jar has lost interest in the armed forces so it was all for naught.
If it means the brute arm of the industrial military complex is one rifle less, I'd call it a success.
A comment like that from someone like you would only encourage me to join up.
He isn't even an American, Raptor; nor does he have any real idea of what it is like to be one.



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14 Feb 2015, 10:41 pm

Fnord wrote:
Raptor wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
It seems Lonely Jar has lost interest in the armed forces so it was all for naught.
If it means the brute arm of the industrial military complex is one rifle less, I'd call it a success.
A comment like that from someone like you would only encourage me to join up.
He isn't even an American, Raptor; nor does he have any real idea of what it is like to be one.


Probably so or it's at least possible he's actually an American who hates America so much he pretends not to be one. It's the internet after all and one can fabricate enough "facts" and storyline about themselves to be whatever. Either way, his hatred of the US of A makes me feel all the more proud to be an American. :D

Image


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14 Feb 2015, 10:45 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Fnord wrote:

What people choose for themselves is their right.


If you're going to be all reductionist about it, for some other people joining ISIS might be 'their right'.

That something seems to be objectively good for us, if even only on an individual basis doesn't make it the right thing to do. Yeah, theres a reasonable possibility that you wont be put in harms way or be handed a gun and told to kill others but regardless you will be helping to facilitate these deeds to a greater or lesser degree regardless of what capacity you serve in.

I can't bring myself advocate someone joining the payroll of the industrial military complex in such a direct capacity on principal. Regardless of whether its in their personal interests or not. Obviously thats not a factor to some people here because their politics creates a bias for them.

If everyone the world over stopped enlisting the entire institution of war would grind to a halt. I think its up to citizens in developed countries to lead by example. Call that hippy leftie peacenik claptrap all you want, but it remains an inescapable truthism.


:roll: :roll:
Grow up, already


You know someone having a differing opinion than you is not a sign they need to 'grow up' its more a sign they disagree...its not any less valid than your opinion.


At least my opinion on this matter has some rational backing and is not just a peacenik's pipe dream.


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Pizzagal3000
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14 Feb 2015, 10:46 pm

No. NEVER join the military. EVER!

Especially if you are a very young black man! If so, you are far more likely to be placed on infantry!


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14 Feb 2015, 10:54 pm

Pizzagal3000 wrote:
No. NEVER join the military. EVER! Especially if you are a very young black man! If so, you are far more likely to be placed on infantry!
Yet another person who speaks from a lack of direct experience.



eric76
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15 Feb 2015, 5:19 am

Pizzagal3000 wrote:
No. NEVER join the military. EVER!

Especially if you are a very young black man! If so, you are far more likely to be placed on infantry!


Imagination running amok?



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15 Feb 2015, 6:51 am

Pizzagal3000 wrote:
No. NEVER join the military. EVER!

Especially if you are a very young black man! If so, you are far more likely to be placed on infantry!


It sounds an awful lot like you think you're stating a fact----but, the fact is, you're WRONG!!



eric76
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15 Feb 2015, 7:01 am

The reality is that blacks are less likely to be found in the infantry.

A quick web search finds plenty to back that up.

For example, from http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-01-20-army-race-usat-_x.htm:

Quote:
But a close examination of Pentagon statistics suggests that at least some of the conventional wisdom about who is most at risk during wartime is misleading. For example, although blacks account for 26% of Army troops, they make up a much smaller percentage of those in front-line combat units, the most likely to be killed or injured in a conventional war.

In all four military branches, black recruits tend to favor support jobs, from mechanic to unit administrator, over traditional combat slots such as infantryman or fighter pilot. That division of labor is well known within the armed forces. But the root causes and the question of whether it's relevant in an age when recruits typically choose their own jobs remain subjects of debate.

Scholars and military personnel specialists say there are several possible explanations for the relatively small number of blacks in jobs that involve dropping bombs and shooting rifles. The most plausible include economic factors, cultural differences and fears that a subtle form of racism has made minorities feel unwelcome, especially in elite units.

Since the Pentagon started the all-volunteer military in the early 1970s, black unemployment has frequently been double the rate for whites. So, for a large number of black recruits, it's important to select military jobs that teach marketable skills.

David Segal, a military sociologist at the University of Maryland, says that's probably a good reason more black soldiers don't join infantry units: "There aren't a lot of corporations looking to hire people who fire rifles for a living."

But companies might want to recruit former soldiers who have computer or administrative skills. In fact, blacks greatly outnumber whites as administrative specialists in the enlisted Army: 4,758 to 2,689. Navy statistics are similar: Though blacks make up about 18% of the Navy, they account for 32% of enlisted administrative specialists.



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15 Feb 2015, 7:09 am

From http://ashbrook.org/publications/oped-owens-02-combat/:

Quote:
The contention that in America’s wars, minorities bear a disproportionate burden of the fighting and dying has long been a staple of Left-wing rhetoric since the Vietnam War. Even as late as the Gulf War in 1991, Jesse Jackson, addressing a largely black audience, claimed that "when that war breaks out, our youth will burn first."

But as Will Rogers once said, "It’s not the things we don’t know that get us into trouble. It’s the things we know that just ain’t true." The claim of disproportionate minority casualties wasn’t true during the Vietnam War, where the record indicates that 86 percent of those who died during the war were white and 12.5 percent were black, from an age group in which blacks comprised 13.1 percent of the population. It is even less true today.

...

While overall, minorities comprise 30 percent of the Army, one of the two services that would be expected to bear the brunt of close combat in Iraq, they tend to be underrepresented in the combat arms. As the incomparable Tom Ricks observed in a January 1997 article for the Wall Street Journal, the "old stereotype about the Army’s front-line units being cannon fodder laden with minorities" is false.

...

On the one hand, white youths are frequently looking for adventure while they try to raise money for college. As a result, they tend to flock to the combat arms, especially elite units like the Rangers and airborne. On the other, young black males, "are generally seeking skills, and so gravitate toward administrative and technical jobs. Because they often find the Army a fairer and better place to live than civilian society, blacks tend to stay enlisted longer: Though only 22% of today’s recruits are black, the Army itself is 30% black."



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15 Feb 2015, 9:56 am

Waiting for the inevitable "Don't confuse me with facts" post in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...



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15 Feb 2015, 10:01 am

I don't know I mean if you are desperate I suppose.

I don't have anything against people who join the armed forces.... I know there are benefits.... I know there is some imaginary "cause" (ie.you'll be a pawn in a game).

When you go into armed forces they brainwash you to be a horrible person. Do you want to be a horrible person?

Anyway, think about if for yourself. My dad did basic training. He hated it. But he survived. He doesn't have anything very positive to say about it.

When you are in the military, they strip your identity and create a new one. Do you want to be a pawn in a game?

Whatever, I don't know what I'm talking about, but I think you would be better off just getting a job at Subway!! !!

Lol....