Guns as the great equalizer
But I believe people take "gun rights" to an extreme sometimes, to the exclusion of more important issues.
An example of "extremes" being what?
Define "more important", please.
Some of the "inside baseball" talk among firearm owners sometimes confuses me. It isn't because I disagree, but it is so technical that I kinda fade out of interest. At that point, I would agree that there are other topics that might be more important, like The Hobbit. Hehe. But, that's just me
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Actually, I am guilty, too. I go off frequently about "inside baseball" politics while those to whom I am speaking end up talking about weather.
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Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)
I've known people who cannot "see the forest for the trees" if they feel their "gun rights" are being violated. This supersedes all else. Weapons which are not specifically used for hunting, like semi-automatic/automatic weapons, are quite dangerous when placed in the wrong hands.
I believe in the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms to defend one's self. But if somebody tells me that semi-automatic/automatic weapons are dangerous and should be banned, then I would concede this, and settle for plain ole rifles when I go out hunting.
I don't believe the banning of dangerous weapons is a violation of one's "gun rights."
fwiw i don't favor what most would term gun control.
I do favor reasonable background checks for all purchases in the same sense that the NRA used to.
I think that people who live in homes that also include people who can't be considered responsible adults should be strongly encouraged to own and use a decent gun safe. Even just a reasonably sturdy wood cabinet or trunk with a padlock. I'm talking about basic measures taken to prevent firearms from being easily accessed by people who aren't competent to handle them unsupervised. And I'm not talking about using the force of law against people who are too big of a jackass to do it.
I think most people - people who don't work in transport, or operate a retail business, or work in security, or a few other lines of work that are specifically targeted for violence - and people who don't live or work in a high crime area - generally don't have a rational reason to own or carry a firearm for "protection".
I'm not saying they don't deserve to own them for any other reason, up to and including strictly because they have a boner for guns.
I'm saying that upper middle class white professionals who live in the suburbs don't need a gun for protection. The numbers suggest that they will never have a cause to use it.
Last several years i live in a boringly safe neighborhood of a drearily safe city. If things went to hell around here, I could see maybe getting one of the more flexible mossberg shotguns, or maybe a remington 1100 20 gauge 'youth' model.
As things are now, I've never owned a firearm, but i did used to go target shooting with my dad.
I'm not saying they don't deserve to own them for any other reason....
Your beliefs are yours, and they are interesting. But, the Second Amendment to the Constitution for the United States of America makes no condition of "reason" to keep (buy and own) and bear (possess and carry) arms (not only firearms). No less an authority than the U.S. Supreme Court determined in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), that "[t]he Second Amendment guarantees an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home...." It also determined in McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010), that "[t]he Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms for self defense in one's home is fully applicable to the states through the Fourteenth Amendment...."
I guess we will have to see the Constitution amended before the amendment's "right to keep and bear arms" is restricted to those with "reason" beyond merely "traditionally lawful purposes" such as "self-defense within the home" and "self defense in one's home."
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Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)
Some people tend to have thier favorite rights and it's not a crime.
Weapons of any kind by virtue of being weapons are dangerous when placed in the wrong hands.
Who's "placing" weapons in people's hands? Whoever they are I wish they'd "place" a few more in my hands.
No, you have gone on record here that you do not. It's not a "you can have one of those nice pretty wood and blue steel rifles but not one of those icky black ones" kind of right.
So you swallow whatever anyone tells you hook, line, and sinker.
Leave the thinking to others, eh?
Nice paradox, there.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
The current term for gun control is "gun safety".
It's called NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) and has been the law for many years now. Helps to know a little about what you're talking about.....
I have a safe but it's to protect me from theft and nothing more.
I'm not saying they don't deserve to own them for any other reason, up to and including strictly because they have a boner for guns.
I'm saying that upper middle class white professionals who live in the suburbs don't need a gun for protection. The numbers suggest that they will never have a cause to use it.
Ah, so some of us aren't worthy of the means for personal protection. That's what the police are for, eh?
BTW; we're not all comfortable with trusting our lives to statistics.
And this is supposed to be good enough for all of us? Well, those of us who can statistically prove the need for protection, i guess......
But you're still an anti.....
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
I believe in the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms to defend one's self. But if somebody tells me that semi-automatic/automatic weapons are dangerous and should be banned, then I would concede this, and settle for plain ole rifles when I go out hunting.
I don't believe the banning of dangerous weapons is a violation of one's "gun rights."
you know its 2015 right? not 1910.
semi autos were around back then too though still. so maybe you think it's 1880?
people hunt with semi autos. its a modern firearm. people prefer it more and more now that they are become less costly. today's ar 15 is the plain ole rifle.
gosh I imagine the anti gunners of the 1880s were like these bolt action and level action rifles are evil. we need to ban them I'd settle for my plain ole flintlock rifle when I go out hunting.
then go back even further and here
these flintlock rifles are evil. I'd settle for my plain or longbow when I go hunting any day. then back
these bows are evil. Id settle for my spear .......
etc.
look technology advances. so if you going hat one one area then put away your computers and phones. and go back to a quill and parch paper, and a horse and buggy.
I do favor reasonable background checks for all purchases in the same sense that the NRA used to.
I think that people who live in homes that also include people who can't be considered responsible adults should be strongly encouraged to own and use a decent gun safe. Even just a reasonably sturdy wood cabinet or trunk with a padlock. I'm talking about basic measures taken to prevent firearms from being easily accessed by people who aren't competent to handle them unsupervised. And I'm not talking about using the force of law against people who are too big of a jackass to do it.
I think most people - people who don't work in transport, or operate a retail business, or work in security, or a few other lines of work that are specifically targeted for violence - and people who don't live or work in a high crime area - generally don't have a rational reason to own or carry a firearm for "protection".
I'm not saying they don't deserve to own them for any other reason, up to and including strictly because they have a boner for guns.
I'm saying that upper middle class white professionals who live in the suburbs don't need a gun for protection. The numbers suggest that they will never have a cause to use it.
Last several years i live in a boringly safe neighborhood of a drearily safe city. If things went to hell around here, I could see maybe getting one of the more flexible mossberg shotguns, or maybe a remington 1100 20 gauge 'youth' model.
As things are now, I've never owned a firearm, but i did used to go target shooting with my dad.
yep because why would you target a big expensive house full of expensive things when you could target your next door house that is empty and has nothing but worthless trash. if there's a .1 % chance of me being hurt I'll carry my gun. what harm does people owning and carrying guns do to you? nothing you don't even know they have them.
they made a deal and supported background checks for new guns sold in stores, not used guns sold privately. a deal the antis never lived up to and the nra have regretted making ever since.
I believe strongly that people like kraftiekortie might enjoy learning more about the Second Amendment and firearms if those of us in their lives would make it accessible and interesting. I don't believe that ignoring our duty as "good Second Amendment ambassadors" is helpful in this case. If we are admonished to "take a friend to the range," should we avoid doing the same conversationally?
_________________
Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)
I believe in the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms to defend one's self. But if somebody tells me that semi-automatic/automatic weapons are dangerous and should be banned, then I would concede this, and settle for plain ole rifles when I go out hunting.
I don't believe the banning of dangerous weapons is a violation of one's "gun rights."
you know its 2015 right? not 1910.
semi autos were around back then too though still. so maybe you think it's 1880?
people hunt with semi autos. its a modern firearm. people prefer it more and more now that they are become less costly. today's ar 15 is the plain ole rifle.
gosh I imagine the anti gunners of the 1880s were like these bolt action and level action rifles are evil. we need to ban them I'd settle for my plain ole flintlock rifle when I go out hunting.
then go back even further and here
these flintlock rifles are evil. I'd settle for my plain or longbow when I go hunting any day. then back
these bows are evil. Id settle for my spear .......
etc.
look technology advances. so if you going hat one one area then put away your computers and phones. and go back to a quill and parch paper, and a horse and buggy.
People would be surprised to know that the evil AR-15 was first marketed to civilians in 1963 or 64. The carbine version with the short barrel and retractable stock (VERY popular in more recent years) was introduced in 1966. What has driven thier sales the most is the threat of legislation to ban them. Best way to get people to buy something is to tell them they can't have one.
The earliest semi-auto plain old hunting rifle was introduced by Remington in 1908.
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
It would be a roll of the dice. Chances are it would be a temporary victory. People who, by thier own admission, allow others to do thier thinking on this matter (example: But if somebody tells me that semi-automatic/automatic weapons are dangerous and should be banned, then I would concede this, and settle for plain ole rifles when I go out hunting.) can just as easily be pulled back to the anti-gun side in the wake of the next big news story shooting (e.g. Sandy Hook).
In my case whenever I've done the "take a friend to the range" thing I'm looking for a strong and stable platform to build on.Someone that when I stack some information and experience on said platform that it won't fall through any holes, if you know what I mean......
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
when you take someone to the range, they experience shooting and see why its calming and fun. they then can start to see why the antis are so stupid. I don't see how one could give the same experience verbally. I settle for attempting to show the falseness of their comments. I don't mind people that just say I personally don't like guns but don't care if anyone owns any and all types of them. its the I don't like guns and think all or some should be banned and base it off of lies(more often other peoples lies that they rehash)
Exactly. The same thing happened when the Massachusetts militias had indeed been gathering a stock of weapons in early 1775, after having learned that about 700 British Army regulars in Boston were given secret orders to capture and destroy rebel military supplies that were reportedly stored by the Massachusetts militias at Concord, Mass. The British ended up getting spanked.
History repeats itself. The AR-15 and its variants are the new muzzle-loaded muskets of today. Now, if we could just get an AR to fire .69-cal. ball.
_________________
Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)
I understand. But, back in 2002 when I started a local LGBT firearm-advocacy group with monthly range meetings, I instructed firearm basics to several LGBT people who had never before touched a gun, and a few who had hated firearms until the moment that they fired their first shot. There is something in that instant when they fire that wipes away years of prejudice and misinformation. Their usual reaction was "that's it?!?" THAT'S what I have been scared of all this time? This is cool!" They never regretted what they had learned, even if they didn't pursue the sport or buy a firearm.
_________________
Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)
I don't have anything against guns, ranges, etc. I don't feel a visceral disgust at guns.
And I understand why gun rights advocates see the potential for over-involvement on the part if governments in the lives of private citizens via regulation.
Calling me names and questioning my strength of character will not persuade me toward any cause.
I prefer the honey approach to the vinegar approach any day.
"Make my day" by being an amiable sort, rather than somebody who believes that acidic words will bring me around to potentially acidic viewpoints.
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