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AnonymousAnonymous
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09 Dec 2015, 5:41 pm

If Trump is elected the next President, he should be called "President D-Bag."


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09 Dec 2015, 5:44 pm

I'll admit to not reading everything on this thread so I apologise if this has been covered but; can someone explain to me why one mass shooting by a couple who are Muslim is a matter of national outrage and everyone that follows that faith must ultimately be evil and plotting to kill you whereas, if an American does it the constitution gives you that right and the answer is to carry more automatic weapons?



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09 Dec 2015, 5:45 pm

MonsterCrack wrote:
I'd be more than happy to explain, zen, thank you very much for asking.... killing of non combatants, whether they are Muslim or non-Muslim, christian, jewish, pagan, etc. is prohibited... killing of women, children, the elderly, those who are in their homes, those who are in their churches, those who lay down their weapons, prisoners of war, and religious monks and hermits is forbidden...... it says in the Qur'an that if the other side wants to make peace, you MUST make peace... and the French of hundreds of years ago noted the humane treatment of prisoners of war under the Muslims... under sharia, prisoners of war are to have the same or similar provisions as your comrades... read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_m ... isprudence


Yes, yes admirable except for the terrorism part. You do not say these terrorists are NOT Muslim so that means they ARE Muslim but just not condemned for their (according to you) justified killing of any, because your religion tells you this is GOOD. Do I have it right now?



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09 Dec 2015, 6:05 pm

bataspie wrote:
I'll admit to not reading everything on this thread so I apologise if this has been covered but; can someone explain to me why one mass shooting by a couple who are Muslim is a matter of national outrage and everyone that follows that faith must ultimately be evil and plotting to kill you whereas, if an American does it the constitution gives you that right and the answer is to carry more automatic weapons?


The question is why neighbors and friends of terrorists, living in close proximity don't want to turn in terrorists before they kill and only rise up AFTER the innocent people are killed to say words to the effect of: "we're peaceful Muslims and only want peace" and "We didn't see anything." But they justify the killers by saying the reason for terrorism is always someone else's (impossible to change unless they kill or drive out all Jews, Westerners, etc.) historical fault and they are forced to acts of terrorism because they are good Muslims.

I don't think this is compatible with our moral standards in the United States. Saying it is morally correct to murder people according to your religious principles just irks me.

I do not apologize for any actions of our government....or any government. Peace is the only answer but it's hard to bring people to discussion that say their main goal in life is to kill you. Or make you their slave. Or loot your people for "tax" purposes (I guess they let you keep your trees......really nice masters, if you're into that kind of thing).



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09 Dec 2015, 7:18 pm

Muhammad Ali Responds to Trump's Muslim Ban Proposal


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09 Dec 2015, 7:34 pm

Well, I'm sorry if my comment offended you, nurseangela. I just don't understand how anyone could support a candidate who has proudly spewed so much garbage that only provoke images of Germany under the Nazi regime. Hey, we can agree to disagree -- and I won't take any offense if you consider my an idiot, as well.

On Benghazi: What really amuses me is that while conservatives continue to froth at the mouth over that tragedy, they conveniently forget that Bush presided over the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history. Declassified documents prove there more than ample intelligence in the weeks and months leading up to 9/11 to condemn the Bush administration for failing to take the necessary steps to avert it.

By the way, I am no fan of Hillary Clinton. I will not be voting for she should she win her party's nomination.


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09 Dec 2015, 7:46 pm

Thank you MonsterCrack.

The American system was built for that Christian sects could live together.

While this made sense to them, it did not include Native Americans.

Native Americans had a deeper spiritual life, saw it as a guiding force, a living thing.

As Americans were civilized, they had Saloons, whore houses and churches, they could not grasp the idea that The Great Spirit lives in the heart of men.

Native Americans tried to understand, even went to church, but the teachings and the practices did not match.

What has happened to Native Americans, loss of history, culture, community, language, religion, national dress, is what Muslims have resisted. Missionaries never converted them.

India and China rejected missionaries. There was no long time result.

Christians have only managed to convert and establish Christian Communities in sub Saharan Africa.

They have an IQ of 70. Where Christian faith is strongest, The Bible Belt, is not the intelligent or technological part of the country.

Christians had an advantage, 500 years of free murder and colonial exploitation, and Christian teachings at the point of a sword. It failed to take root almost everywhere. Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, Confucians, remained unchanged.

In rural south America, the churches are painted in the bright colors of the Mayan and Aztec and decorated within with the plants the old religion used, people bring jugs of water to be blessed. Here and there, Mary has been converted into an Aztec goddess, and the dark skinned Jesus another old god.

Mayan and Aztec were not spoken, they were trade languages, much as Europe used Latin. Now it is Spanish which is not spoken in the villages. Priests drank themselves to death trying, and church life continued without them. While they are claimed as Christian, no one understand their language, rituals, offerings and blessings.

It is not just the far deep jungles, the Flagellate in New Mexico have ritual whipping, starting young, and progressing to blood covered and passing out. They claim their offering and sacrifice gives them a closer connection to the Saints, as they call the Gods. There is also a festival where a child is brought into the family, dressed, fed, spoken to, then killed and eaten as a messenger to god.

African and South American Christian churches are not worshiping the same god as Kansas.

The Christian Bible is first stolen from the Jews, grafting a Greek concept of Hero Worship religion, fan fiction, that has gone through many edits and rewrites. The Koran is word for word as Muhammad dictated it, and as his closest friends agreed, at the time of his death.

The Mosque is a community center, the congregation picks the Iman, someone they respect from their group.
There are other Imans, teachers, and they might form Iman Clubs, but the structure of the religion is flat.

At the call to prayer all people go to the Mosque to worship. Some more than others, but they all worship at the same Mosque. The Prince, the Banker, the Merchant, with the street vendor and the water seller. The community is flat.

Islam includes a social system. Give 2.5% of your income to the poor. This includes the poor, everybody is to share, and it is open, you chose what poor to support. It was the original Kickstarter.

So is directed, Widows, orphans, the sick. Take care of everyone in your community.

Some of the land laws were if a field is not used for three years, anyone can use it. To possess something, it must be used. No one could own more land than they used.

There are more women than men, men should take more than one wife.

Islam did this in the 700s, the next Social Security System of giving money to the widows, orphans, sick, old, was in Germany in 1894. The US did it in 1933.

Taking land from the rich and giving it to the working poor happened in the Communist Revolution, 1917.

Women had defined rights, they could inheret, have property. In the west they were Chattel until 1920.

Andalusia, Spain, 1300 was the site of the first university in Europe, where the well to do sent their children. Islam educated Europe.

The works of the Greeks and Romans had been destroyed in Europe, by the church, Islam had translated them into Arabic, and returned the knowledge and wisdom of the past, that had been lost for 800 years.

Having driven Islam out of Europe at the demand of the Church, the filthy Europeans then died of Plague for 300 years, because they did not bathe, and did not understand simple sanitation.

1300 Fibernacci was the son of a merchant in Algeria and a school boy. Returning to Italy he brought Arabic numerals, the concept of Zero, Algebra, to a land that had only Roman Numerals.

In the same time and place, Ibn Khaldun wrote about everything important. History, Government, Economics, Socialology, and is consided the father of four or five sciences.

Tamerlane conquered from Asia to Egypt, and sent a message, he wanted to meet khaldun. After their meeting he went back to Asia.

There were no books and few stories in Europe. The Song of Roland is the first in French, El Cid in Spanish. Chaucer is hardly understandable as English, and is more Norse and German. Our modern languages appear about 1500. Shakespeare was a first user.

Arabic had been written and read for 750 years over a wide area reaching out past India and down into Africa.

Muslim is no doubt the superior culture, our relation with them for the last 500 years has involved ships, canons, and demanding they convert to Christian.

I still think they should not be allowed to invade Europe and America. They will not change, and we are in the wrong, but we are good at killing people.

That is part of the problem, we killed a million in Iraq, for some reason. Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, now Syria, which in proportion would be them killing fifteen million of us, we would notice.

We could stop killing them, stop arming hired guns, and support their rebuilding. That would be easy.

It would be harder to convince the West that other points of view are valid. They are just not ready.

It would be best to Keep West West, and East East.

We could also put 2.5% of our income toward the poor, about $2 Trillion a year, and see what happens.



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09 Dec 2015, 10:55 pm

My views are a lot different because of my age level, but this is absolutely uncalled for. I cringe every time I hear that word TRUMP.
Banning Muslims from entering the U.S. may have some HUGE problems. And maybe, a case for the Supreme Court to look at.
Everyone believes the stereotype of "all Muslims are terrorists and horrible people." NO they are not!! ISIS is small, compared to the population of Muslims that are nice, courteous, and hope to do something extraordinary (that doesn't threat tons of people) with their lives. I have a Middle Eastern student at my school. She's a senior and takes AP classes. Do I see a secret ISIS attachment to that? No.
Yes, maybe they should be monitored a little bit more than the other races. But ANYONE can cause a mass shooting or attack. White, black, Hispanic, Asian, you name it. We will be reaching the 3 year anniversary of Newtown. What race was Adam Lanza? White. He killed 26 people which included 20 first-graders. So remember, not all Middle Eastern people are bad and have thoughts of doing another 9/11.
If he wins the election, god help us. We'll jam pack the Canadian borders trying to get out of the U.S. And Canada's population will probably double. If he wants to ban Muslims, he'll probably try to ban Mexican immigrants as well. Well, because "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists, and some I ASSUME...are good people." The poor, and any minorities, will suffer more than ever before.

When newspapers and other sources start to compare Trump to Hitler, he's got a huge problem. And I'm not a far left liberal. I am a little left liberal, but mostly moderate. Populist at times.

At times, I'd rather see a chimpanzee, or a young kid, in office.



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10 Dec 2015, 12:04 am

WAautisticguy wrote:
My views are a lot different because of my age level, but this is absolutely uncalled for. I cringe every time I hear that word TRUMP.
Banning Muslims from entering the U.S. may have some HUGE problems. And maybe, a case for the Supreme Court to look at.
Everyone believes the stereotype of "all Muslims are terrorists and horrible people." NO they are not!! ISIS is small, compared to the population of Muslims that are nice, courteous, and hope to do something extraordinary (that doesn't threat tons of people) with their lives. I have a Middle Eastern student at my school. She's a senior and takes AP classes. Do I see a secret ISIS attachment to that? No.
Yes, maybe they should be monitored a little bit more than the other races. But ANYONE can cause a mass shooting or attack. White, black, Hispanic, Asian, you name it. We will be reaching the 3 year anniversary of Newtown. What race was Adam Lanza? White. He killed 26 people which included 20 first-graders. So remember, not all Middle Eastern people are bad and have thoughts of doing another 9/11.
If he wins the election, god help us. We'll jam pack the Canadian borders trying to get out of the U.S. And Canada's population will probably double. If he wants to ban Muslims, he'll probably try to ban Mexican immigrants as well. Well, because "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists, and some I ASSUME...are good people." The poor, and any minorities, will suffer more than ever before.

When newspapers and other sources start to compare Trump to Hitler, he's got a huge problem. And I'm not a far left liberal. I am a little left liberal, but mostly moderate. Populist at times.

At times, I'd rather see a chimpanzee, or a young kid, in office.


I think Trump's only excuse for his kind of bigotry is due to the dead Orangutan on his head that has been leaking toxins through his skin pours into his brain. I don't know if his supporters can make the same excuse.


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10 Dec 2015, 5:14 am

Stop all immigration, we are in a seven year recession, with a doubling of the National Debt, and another four trillion added to the Federal Reserve books. Obama has added more debt than all the Presidents before him combined.

We have our own underclass to worry about, our students burdened by debt, those who did not go to college, Blacks who have much higher unemployment.

The added ten trillion in debt is $200,000,000,000 per State, so how are you going to pay that off? The total is $400,000,000,000 per State. Debt reduction at a trillion a year would take 24 years, plus interest, which could double it, or triple it. Do you want the hundred year austerity plan?

Obama has been deporting over two million illegals a year, when they get released from prison. Their crimes, Court cases, jail time, plus deportation, can run several hundred thousand each. They make up 31% of our prison population. This gets expensive.

Deporting illegals before conviction is much cheaper, building a wall to keep them out is even cheaper.

Stop immigration, deport illegals, is going to open up ten million jobs, which will now have to pay going rates, and pay into Social Security.

Technology is replacing low skilled jobs, robotics, automation, Artificial Intelligence, are going to replace a lot more.

Our unavoidable problem is we will have to raise taxes, or expand the base of employment, to meet the needs of our government. Immigrants and illegals add to the welfare demand. They cost more than they pay in.

We need higher employment at higher rates to get out of this hole.

The Ship of State is listing dangerously to the Left. Ships do sink.

There are only a half billion Europeans over the world, 6% of the population, who have spread technology, and reduced poverty worldwide. A billion people have been lifted out of dollar a day poverty recently. We have another billion to go. Employment and medical care have reduced population where they have been tried. We are going to reach a peak population, will it be two children per family, or several billion dying in famine, and the disease that famine produces?

This country belongs to the people who live here. They are the only ones with the vote.

Only the Trump Plan will give this generation the ability to live as well as their parents, and the following generation is faced with becoming Third World for Equality.

Don't steal America from your children.



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10 Dec 2015, 5:38 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I think Trump's only excuse for his kind of bigotry is due to the dead Orangutan on his head that has been leaking toxins through his skin pours into his brain. I don't know if his supporters can make the same excuse.

He's a left wing dream boat.

Supports gay marriage.
Tariffs on imports to protect worker pay.
Higher taxes on rich, lower taxes on poor and middle class.
Curtail visa immigration programs so businesses can't bring in "cheap labor".
End NAFTA.
Wants government run national health care (labeled "Obamacare on Steroids" by the right)
Protect the border (keep the cheap illegal labor out to protect worker pay).

So we have this interesting event ...

Labor Unions giving serious thought to endorsing Trump
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/labor ... le/2573359



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10 Dec 2015, 10:15 am

WAautisticguy wrote:
My views are a lot different because of my age level, but this is absolutely uncalled for. I cringe every time I hear that word TRUMP.
Banning Muslims from entering the U.S. may have some HUGE problems. And maybe, a case for the Supreme Court to look at.
Everyone believes the stereotype of "all Muslims are terrorists and horrible people." NO they are not!! ISIS is small, compared to the population of Muslims that are nice, courteous, and hope to do something extraordinary (that doesn't threat tons of people) with their lives. I have a Middle Eastern student at my school. She's a senior and takes AP classes. Do I see a secret ISIS attachment to that? No.
Yes, maybe they should be monitored a little bit more than the other races. But ANYONE can cause a mass shooting or attack. White, black, Hispanic, Asian, you name it. We will be reaching the 3 year anniversary of Newtown. What race was Adam Lanza? White. He killed 26 people which included 20 first-graders. So remember, not all Middle Eastern people are bad and have thoughts of doing another 9/11.
If he wins the election, god help us. We'll jam pack the Canadian borders trying to get out of the U.S. And Canada's population will probably double. If he wants to ban Muslims, he'll probably try to ban Mexican immigrants as well. Well, because "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists, and some I ASSUME...are good people." The poor, and any minorities, will suffer more than ever before.

When newspapers and other sources start to compare Trump to Hitler, he's got a huge problem. And I'm not a far left liberal. I am a little left liberal, but mostly moderate. Populist at times.

At times, I'd rather see a chimpanzee, or a young kid, in office.


The canard you mention: "Everyone believes the stereotype of "all Muslims are terrorists and horrible people."" is one I've only heard Muslims (and those who repeat what they say) speak. And, naturally, this is usually after a terrorist attack. Perhaps, if the shoe were on the other foot, this is what Muslims might think and therefor believe others will react as they? I don't hear anyone proposing this thought from inside the U.S.....perhaps elsewhere?

"Yes, maybe they should be monitored a little bit more than the other races." Perhaps, but this is obviously not done for religious reasons, but instead for security reasons because all of the originating-outside-the-U.S. attacks seem to be done by Muslims. Just makes you a little suspicious, no?

"Well, because "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists, and some I ASSUME...are good people." The poor, and any minorities, will suffer more than ever before." Would you happen to live in a southwestern area where hospitals have closed because of the overwhelming crush of incoming immigrants? If you do live in such a place perhaps ask around about low level job prospects for American citizens are in these areas.

"When newspapers and other sources start to compare Trump to Hitler, he's got a huge problem" Well Trump has many problems but the f'ing newspapers (remember the ones who claim unbiased news reporting?) don't seem to be effecting him in the polls.

Trump's allure (now why does the pairing of Trump + "allure" smell like dog sh't?) for some will continue until other candidates (and the government) begin addressing reality instead of trying to pander to voters. Trump has exposed a stink the other candidates/cowards refuse to address in their candidacy...and this left him an opening.

I don't expect to find any altruistic streak in Trump....but by refusing to reasonably discuss the issues of immigration, etc. these other candidates are tacitly approving the inhuman conditions present today and in effect insuring they will continue.



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10 Dec 2015, 10:23 am

frenchmanflats wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm sure there have been Muslims who told the authorities about radicals.

There are Muslims, believe it or not, who want to live, and who don't believe in the 77 virgins scenario.



It depends on where the Imam was taught and the type of literature at the Mosque. If the Imam is a Wahhabi they are most likely to be radical. If there is radicalized literature at the Mosque then the teachings will be radicalized.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair- ... 17157.html


Sorry to bother you frenchmanflats but I was waiting to see if other well read individuals would be interested in challenging your statement. Thank you for this information. It makes things somewhat more understandable.



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10 Dec 2015, 10:29 am

nurseangela wrote:
AspE wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
I just want to say that any of you who will be voting for Hillary, then you will be voting for a murderer. She knew exactly what was happening in Benghazi.

That's asinine.


Look it up or stay in denial by keeping your head in the clouds. She didn't just "accidentally" lose all that information on her computer - it's the biggest coverup (a 100x's worse) since Watergate. I'm tired of talking to people who won't listen.

You seem to forget, it's an artificial scandal. Republicans wasted millions trying to pin some wrongdoing on her, and there just isn't anything. We were in two wars with people dying every day and you want to focus on this? Where's your sense of perspective? It was a dangerous job.



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10 Dec 2015, 10:30 am

Trump is a Leftist and a Socialist. But he is intelligent.

This really upsets people who claim to be Leftist and Socialist, but have never delivered.

National Health Care was proposed by Nixon, and refused by a Democratic Congress.

They talk the talk to get elected, but never walk the walk and deliver.

Under the current system, hospitals treat everyone, a lot cannot pay, so they raise the price to those who can, have insurance, and everybody's rates go up. Each stage of markup, hospital, insurance, has a profit added. All the paperwork is paid for.

Under National Health Care, the Government pays for the insolvent. So hospitals can charge everyone less, and that is what insurance is based on. Compared to anyone, our Health Care Costs are very high.

Under National Health Care, people get a Doctor, Health problems are addressed in office visits, which are much cheaper than Emergency Room visits.

We have managed health care, hospitals and insurance are regulated, allowed to make a reasonable profit.

Compared to Canada, we pay twice as much. Half of our costs are because of the uninsured being treated in emergency rooms.

Obama Care lets the poor get insurance, but it has a $10,000 deductible. The poor do not have $10,000, most Americans do not. I would call that fraud, but it is mandated fraud. They pay for insurance, then they pay for treatment?

If the government picks up the costs for the poor, it is not magnified through layers of hospital and insurance paperwork. Overall costs should be two thirds of current costs.

The vast majority of people with insurance that does pay, would be paying a third less. Hospitals and insurance would still make the same profit margin.

Not treating illegals, overall costs may drop to Canadian rates.

It is what every other industrial country has done, it is humane.

The upside is, business pays for worker insurance. It is a big cost to employers. It comes out of workers pay.

As part of the benefits package, savings can be added to payroll, workers get a raise, and more is paid into Social Security and Income Tax.

Social Security and taxes pay for the government cost. Everyone gets healthcare.

Insurance can bid to do the government paying. Processing claims nationally. It does not increase government.

The overall savings to the insured is many times greater than the public cost.

The amount paid out by government, We The People, is going to be much less than we pay one at a time.

Universal Health Care has been shown to increase economic output.

Trump employs tens of thousands, he understands how this works.



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10 Dec 2015, 10:33 am

ZenDen wrote:

"Palestinians remember history too, like when the Jews took over their lands by force."

Certainly. So this means what?????? The Palestinians should be allowed to bomb at will in contrition? That their religion TELLS them it's GOOD to continue killing????? For what reason? Just hatred that will never end?? Do they want to kill all people of the Jewish religion? Where does it it stop?

If this is their thinking then I definitely don't want any such as neighbors, because it's clear from their actions they have a great hate for the Western world, and that includes me, my friends and neighbors; and it appears there is no "ordinary" Muslim willing to repudiate the actions of the killers, until after the fact.

It means Israelis made their bed, now they have to lie in it. They created a country with war, and now they reap the consequences.