Real Americans is a racist dog whistle

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You know, it you want to make nice with me, you could try getting Raptor and Dox to stop the personal attacks.
And I have asked Dox to stop it, and in return, I'll stop it.

I had to look up flummoxes.

Bill, I've had to "correct" you about my politics dozens of times over the years; I either have to believe that you're lying, or you're stupid, and one of those things is less palatable to me than the other. I simply don't believe that even your memory is that "selective", and you've admitted to saying things just to piss people off in the past (you know there's a four letter word for people who do that), so I'm going to go with lying, declare yourself too dumb to remember if you think that casts you in a better light.




I am in favor of strong private property rights, which, yes, is a traditionally conservative position; I'm also in favor of some extremely liberal positions, such as the aforementioned guaranteed minimum income, a position far the left of the Democratic party. Either you don't understand that people can pick and choose positions, it's not an all or nothing choice, or you don't care, so long as you get to label and insult me; again, take your pick, dumb or lying/trolling.



Did it ever occur to you that you wouldn't draw these responses if you weren't constantly going on about what ignorant racists everyone but liberals democrats are? I'm very specific when I go after you, while you're the guy spraying insults into the crowd, no provocation needed. I keep thinking if I expose your poor thinking and contradictions, you'll be shamed into making better posts, but apparently it's me who's failing to learn.
I can't speak to Raptor's motivations, we don't really correspond outside of threads, but I imagine revenge figures pretty strongly into it.




Says the guy still fuming over high school...

That, and do you know what I do when people talk about things I don't care about? I don't post obnoxious, ignorant opinions in their threads, simple concept.



For you, laying off means laying off the conservative bashing, which I don't think you can do.

Which were caused by built up rage due to your constant abusing of everyone who isn't a liberal democrat; do you see the pattern yet?

Also, that's trolling.

Last edited by Dox47 on 24 Jan 2017, 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Are you freaking kidding me? If that was the reason you were drunk, I'd be blitzed 24 hours a day with some of the crap you and your "friends" called me before the election. I eould have considered being called a "liar" a pet name.

I think you only see things in black and white terms. Just because Mr.D. doesn't believe in those two things you mentioned, he believes more on the Demo side than Repub and he didn't vote for Trump. Do you know that Mr.D. and I are at odds on several topics - legalizing drugs and prostitution, opening borders, giving a flat payout to all and probably many others. But do you know that even though we disagree on a ton of things, I'd still invite him to dinner with me and my Ma and I can't say that about any others who have the same beliefs - except for my own brother, but that's family. You know why? Because he knows how to discuss topics without the name calling. Once you call someone a nazi, Hitler, xenophobe, homophobe, racist, bigot, conspiracy theorist, gun nut and any other crazy ass terms that some on the Left have managed to think up - it causes hatred and nothing can be discussed. You don't seem to get that and neither did the sore losers who left after Trump won got it either. They aren't around anymore to back you up with the harassing name calling that was done to any Trump supporter on this site. It needs to come to an end now starting with you - if thats even possible. It seems some are so brainwashed with the words nazi, hitler, racist, etc. that theyd probably need to be reeducated.

Last edited by nurseangela on 24 Jan 2017, 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

When have I ever attacked anyone personally here for being a racist? I've attacked people in the news, or who have been mentioned on WP, who have expressed racism. I despise those kind of people as bullies. It doubtlessly stems from my school days, which is a very Aspie thing. And that's doubtlessly why I find libertarian views of private property so offensive, as those arguments had been used to support segregation.
And while I'll concede I hardly know enough about firearms, I like to think I know something about the subjects I do comment on. Just because you disagree with my assessments hardly means I don't know what I'm talking about, just that we disagree.
And while there are men who have gotten the short end of the stick, quite wrongly, after a marriage breaks up, the men's rights movement has few if any solutions, as spewing hatred and bitterness hardly accomplishes anything. Then again, I concede I am viewing this as an outsider, as I've been married fifteen years and going strong. So I can't say I have ever felt like the men's rightsers have, as I understand many of them are either divorced themselves, or feel rejected by women.
But calling someone demeaningly a "white dude," I'm sorry, is hardly reason to embrace any sort of reaction. As I said previously, no one's ever been lynched, denied housing, or told they couldn't vote because they're white dudes, and never will.

I do not recall making a single personal attack on you. If you had ever perceived that I had, then I'm sorry I wrongly came across as attacking you. I have said more than once tonight that I'd like to see an end to all the ugly name calling, but I can't do it unilaterally.

I honestly don't think you get it. Its not a personal attack like what you are thinking, its a broad attack. Everytime you call a Trump supporter a racist, or people on the Right are bigots - that's the same as saying that I am those things because I am a Trump supporter. Thats attacking anyone here or anywhere who is a Conservative or a Trump supporter.

Just cut out all of those foul terms from your language and you'll be sure of not offending anyone. Its really that simple.

Angie is pretty on the money here, constantly attacking groups that other people in the conversation belong to is not a good way of making friends, but boy does it make enemies in a hurry.

folks, if these are all such important interpersonal issues that need to be resolved, consider doing so via PM as this thread is being very much derailed.

if this thread had any rails to begin with, consider going to back to them as it may be locked otherwise.

The rails are real. Dismissiveness is firmly on one side of the disagreement about the topic.

Let's recap our positions on the topic and start fresh.

Real American, America First, the idea that everyone in the inner city gets shot at every evening, the stereotypes, and more of Trump's language is cribbed from the writings of racists. This causes reasonable concerns that they are following the same chain of conclusions.

Now you recap your topical arguments, if you want to continue with a discussion.

Maybe someone will reject the context. Maybe I'll learn who will adopt the term in order to create more anxiety in people of color. That speaks volumes.

Edit: Trump now claims that 3 to 5 Million "illegal" votes tipped the popular vote to Hillary. Obviously, contradicted by every serious researcher. The important thing is where the idea comes from. I don't know if it originated from an explicitly racist source. It fits the profile.

Here's another idea:

The same phrase may be loaded with multiple meanings each taking primacy over the others in the minds of some people.

To insist to others that they mean some particular thing by a phrase because it's one of the possible meanings that phrase can have is an approach unlikely to yield anything but conflict.

It's the equivalent of saying, "I know what you really mean, and when you say otherwise you are lying." Having been told what I really mean by some of the conservatives on the board a number of times, despite my clear words to the contrary, I can attest to how annoying this is.

I think "Real American" is a phrase that serves multiple purposes both positive and negative. The OP claims that it's a racist dog whistle, but then goes on to say "most of the people in my old home state consider themselves Real Americans to the exclusion of anyone who behaves in a way they find weird" --that sounds like it might sometimes be used in a racist way, but also as a way of delegitimizing a variety of people on grounds other than race.

Using "Real American" to define your own supporters when a large part of the American people did not support you is a provocative thing to do. It's understandable why people in the opposition will feel that they are being described as fake, impure or defective Americans and be pissed off about it.

This is part of a game that Trump is playing, maintaining the coalition and energy that brought him to power. That doesn't make every one of the people who are part of that coalition responsible for the worst ideas and speech of other people who are part of that coalition.

"Real Americans" probably is understood a racist dog whistle to some racists and some who are worried about racists, but that doesn't mean that's what it is to all or even most of his followers and it's wrong to insist that it must be viewed that way.

My method of argument keeps getting attacked on that basis, by people who can read me like a book. Except that I keep saying I object to the language because of the source, and I can't know the intent, or even the awareness of the source, by the average Trump voter. People I told axiomatically have the awareness, in some sense, but I will need to observe more to have an opinion of their intent.

Yeah, we can't have much of an argument if we don't at least expect good faith from each other until shown otherwise. However, going along with people who consistently argue in bad faith leads to personal attacks, because bad money drives out good.

Just confront the tactics and then shut up while they flail helplessly without any food, would be my advice if anyone wanted it.

I don't understand this sentence. I know all the words, but they don't mean anything to me when put together in this way.


Food? Flail helplessly? Again, I don't understand what you are trying to communicate, though I get the vague sense it's hostile to people who don't agree with you.

If I tell them, they know in some sense. That is an axiom that I accept.

I don't use that against people who disagree, I use it against gaslighting.