AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
26 Apr 2021, 10:01 am
goldfish21
Veteran
Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
26 Apr 2021, 10:25 am
AngelRho wrote:
Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.
The rest of the developed first world has figured out that without regulation businesses will abuse citizens' labour. In places like China and the USA it's on purpose - the system isn't failing - it's been designed to benefit businesses, whether owned by the state like in China, or privately like in the USA, it's a system that's been created for the advantage of the employer. It works particularly well when the worker bees argue FOR their abuse as the wage slaves they are.
Meanwhile, in Canada, and most other places that are considered developed nations, we don't allow such slavery practices. Not quite. It's no labour utopia here, but at least people aren't screwed over 1/5th as bad as they are in the USA.
_________________
No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.
26 Apr 2021, 12:49 pm
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
26 Apr 2021, 9:26 pm
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.
The rest of the developed first world has figured out that without regulation businesses will abuse citizens' labour. In places like China and the USA it's on purpose - the system isn't failing - it's been designed to benefit businesses, whether owned by the state like in China, or privately like in the USA, it's a system that's been created for the advantage of the employer. It works particularly well when the worker bees argue FOR their abuse as the wage slaves they are.
Meanwhile, in Canada, and most other places that are considered developed nations, we don't allow such slavery practices. Not quite. It's no labour utopia here, but at least people aren't screwed over 1/5th as bad as they are in the USA.
Businesses have always been regulated and it was government policies that allowed businesses to abuse workers. And every time the government tries to fix its mistakes by piling on more regulation, businesses are forced to find new ways of operating that often introduces entirely new and different ways of abusing workers. Here’s an idea: maybe TRY removing regulations and take people to task for criminal behavior when abusive behavior causes harm to workers and others, such as with environmental problems caused by carelessness. You can run your business any way you like, but you cannot hurt your workers, neither purposefully nor through negligence, and the company takes responsibility for any injury not caused by the worker himself. And set whatever wages, vacation time, even parental leave, according to their own preferences or not offering any perks with the understanding that a company might use that to sway workers into leaving. Let competition, not government, sort out what companies offer in terms of benefits and wages. This is unheard of in American history.
goldfish21
Veteran
Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
26 Apr 2021, 10:07 pm
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.
The rest of the developed first world has figured out that without regulation businesses will abuse citizens' labour. In places like China and the USA it's on purpose - the system isn't failing - it's been designed to benefit businesses, whether owned by the state like in China, or privately like in the USA, it's a system that's been created for the advantage of the employer. It works particularly well when the worker bees argue FOR their abuse as the wage slaves they are.
Meanwhile, in Canada, and most other places that are considered developed nations, we don't allow such slavery practices. Not quite. It's no labour utopia here, but at least people aren't screwed over 1/5th as bad as they are in the USA.
Businesses have always been regulated and it was government policies that allowed businesses to abuse workers. And every time the government tries to fix its mistakes by piling on more regulation, businesses are forced to find new ways of operating that often introduces entirely new and different ways of abusing workers. Here’s an idea: maybe TRY removing regulations and take people to task for criminal behavior when abusive behavior causes harm to workers and others, such as with environmental problems caused by carelessness. You can run your business any way you like, but you cannot hurt your workers, neither purposefully nor through negligence, and the company takes responsibility for any injury not caused by the worker himself. And set whatever wages, vacation time, even parental leave, according to their own preferences or not offering any perks with the understanding that a company might use that to sway workers into leaving. Let competition, not government, sort out what companies offer in terms of benefits and wages. This is unheard of in American history.
Unheard of anywhere else, either.. because it doesn't work.
Another problem is people assuming regulations = not abuse. No. $7.25/hr minimum wage is government sanctioned abuse.
_________________
No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
27 Apr 2021, 4:42 am
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.
The rest of the developed first world has figured out that without regulation businesses will abuse citizens' labour. In places like China and the USA it's on purpose - the system isn't failing - it's been designed to benefit businesses, whether owned by the state like in China, or privately like in the USA, it's a system that's been created for the advantage of the employer. It works particularly well when the worker bees argue FOR their abuse as the wage slaves they are.
Meanwhile, in Canada, and most other places that are considered developed nations, we don't allow such slavery practices. Not quite. It's no labour utopia here, but at least people aren't screwed over 1/5th as bad as they are in the USA.
Businesses have always been regulated and it was government policies that allowed businesses to abuse workers. And every time the government tries to fix its mistakes by piling on more regulation, businesses are forced to find new ways of operating that often introduces entirely new and different ways of abusing workers. Here’s an idea: maybe TRY removing regulations and take people to task for criminal behavior when abusive behavior causes harm to workers and others, such as with environmental problems caused by carelessness. You can run your business any way you like, but you cannot hurt your workers, neither purposefully nor through negligence, and the company takes responsibility for any injury not caused by the worker himself. And set whatever wages, vacation time, even parental leave, according to their own preferences or not offering any perks with the understanding that a company might use that to sway workers into leaving. Let competition, not government, sort out what companies offer in terms of benefits and wages. This is unheard of in American history.
Unheard of anywhere else, either.. because it doesn't work.
Another problem is people assuming regulations = not abuse. No. $7.25/hr minimum wage is government sanctioned abuse.
It’s never been tried. How would anybody now living know whether it would work or not?
Min wage is a joke. When a min wage is set, the cost of goods/service goes up. Businesses are aware that min wage laborers have more money, so they charge more to recover what they lose to min wage. That ultimately devalues currency. Scarcity of money increases its value and purchasing power. Min wage doesn’t really make life better for anyone. Drop min wage, let businesses charge what they want for products. If businesses overcharge and people can’t afford things, businesses go bankrupt, and that will drive prices down to levels people can pay.
I think people should earn based on what they produce unless their time is what’s actually being paid for. You think everyone who works at McDonald’s ACTUALLY works? The whole time?
27 Apr 2021, 8:23 am
27 Apr 2021, 9:28 am
goldfish21
Veteran
Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
27 Apr 2021, 11:12 am
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.
The rest of the developed first world has figured out that without regulation businesses will abuse citizens' labour. In places like China and the USA it's on purpose - the system isn't failing - it's been designed to benefit businesses, whether owned by the state like in China, or privately like in the USA, it's a system that's been created for the advantage of the employer. It works particularly well when the worker bees argue FOR their abuse as the wage slaves they are.
Meanwhile, in Canada, and most other places that are considered developed nations, we don't allow such slavery practices. Not quite. It's no labour utopia here, but at least people aren't screwed over 1/5th as bad as they are in the USA.
Businesses have always been regulated and it was government policies that allowed businesses to abuse workers. And every time the government tries to fix its mistakes by piling on more regulation, businesses are forced to find new ways of operating that often introduces entirely new and different ways of abusing workers. Here’s an idea: maybe TRY removing regulations and take people to task for criminal behavior when abusive behavior causes harm to workers and others, such as with environmental problems caused by carelessness. You can run your business any way you like, but you cannot hurt your workers, neither purposefully nor through negligence, and the company takes responsibility for any injury not caused by the worker himself. And set whatever wages, vacation time, even parental leave, according to their own preferences or not offering any perks with the understanding that a company might use that to sway workers into leaving. Let competition, not government, sort out what companies offer in terms of benefits and wages. This is unheard of in American history.
Unheard of anywhere else, either.. because it doesn't work.
Another problem is people assuming regulations = not abuse. No. $7.25/hr minimum wage is government sanctioned abuse.
It’s never been tried. How would anybody now living know whether it would work or not?
Min wage is a joke. When a min wage is set, the cost of goods/service goes up. Businesses are aware that min wage laborers have more money, so they charge more to recover what they lose to min wage. That ultimately devalues currency. Scarcity of money increases its value and purchasing power. Min wage doesn’t really make life better for anyone. Drop min wage, let businesses charge what they want for products. If businesses overcharge and people can’t afford things, businesses go bankrupt, and that will drive prices down to levels people can pay.
I think people should earn based on what they produce unless their time is what’s actually being paid for. You think everyone who works at McDonald’s ACTUALLY works? The whole time?
More brainwashing. Not a high enough % of the labour force earn minimum wage for an increase in minimum wage to increase the price of everything. This has been proven time and time again. Billionaires love it when people like you believe myths like this and help keep all wages low by protesting against the lowest paid people earning a penny more.
_________________
No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
27 Apr 2021, 11:25 am
27 Apr 2021, 12:40 pm
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.
The rest of the developed first world has figured out that without regulation businesses will abuse citizens' labour. In places like China and the USA it's on purpose - the system isn't failing - it's been designed to benefit businesses, whether owned by the state like in China, or privately like in the USA, it's a system that's been created for the advantage of the employer. It works particularly well when the worker bees argue FOR their abuse as the wage slaves they are.
Meanwhile, in Canada, and most other places that are considered developed nations, we don't allow such slavery practices. Not quite. It's no labour utopia here, but at least people aren't screwed over 1/5th as bad as they are in the USA.
Businesses have always been regulated and it was government policies that allowed businesses to abuse workers. And every time the government tries to fix its mistakes by piling on more regulation, businesses are forced to find new ways of operating that often introduces entirely new and different ways of abusing workers. Here’s an idea: maybe TRY removing regulations and take people to task for criminal behavior when abusive behavior causes harm to workers and others, such as with environmental problems caused by carelessness. You can run your business any way you like, but you cannot hurt your workers, neither purposefully nor through negligence, and the company takes responsibility for any injury not caused by the worker himself. And set whatever wages, vacation time, even parental leave, according to their own preferences or not offering any perks with the understanding that a company might use that to sway workers into leaving. Let competition, not government, sort out what companies offer in terms of benefits and wages. This is unheard of in American history.
Unheard of anywhere else, either.. because it doesn't work.
Another problem is people assuming regulations = not abuse. No. $7.25/hr minimum wage is government sanctioned abuse.
It’s never been tried. How would anybody now living know whether it would work or not?
Min wage is a joke. When a min wage is set, the cost of goods/service goes up. Businesses are aware that min wage laborers have more money, so they charge more to recover what they lose to min wage. That ultimately devalues currency. Scarcity of money increases its value and purchasing power. Min wage doesn’t really make life better for anyone. Drop min wage, let businesses charge what they want for products. If businesses overcharge and people can’t afford things, businesses go bankrupt, and that will drive prices down to levels people can pay.
I think people should earn based on what they produce unless their time is what’s actually being paid for. You think everyone who works at McDonald’s ACTUALLY works? The whole time?
Hehe, Let's Drag Out And Drag On An Old Folk Song For This Reply
When i Dance Sing 'We', i Speak of Both Left And Right Brain Metaphor
For Intelligence...
What's Really A Joke is the ISM And Religion of Capital
Making Buying And Selling 'Goods' the God of Life
Rather Than Foraging Giving And Sharing Freely
Hehe Again With Least Harm
That Humans are Evolved
Still To Do In Close to Naked
Mostly Homogenous Looking Acting
Groups of 150 to 200 People With
Common Binds and Bonds of 'Totems';
Yes, Symbols of Culture Holy And Sacred
Feeling This Togetherness in Society
Living In Enough Abundance Now
of Balance to Survive and Thrive
In The Drum Beats Of An All Close
To Naked Rave Twilight to Evening Dance Feeling Moon
And Stars Within ToGeTHeR Never Ever Feeling Lone Allone
Freshly Recovering Invigorating For A New Sunrise Forage...
True Before Covid-19, i Also Found A Place to Do This Fully too..
Living In A Forest With No Loans Very Little to Buy And Consume...
True A Dance Hall With People Young Enough Still Living Breathing
Free Spirit of Ancestors Helps too...
Soon Enough That Part Will
Come Again Been Doing
It Solo Masked in
Public Stores
Since then Still
Get Elbow
Bump
Loving
Hugs Now and Then;
Yet Back to the
Village Every
Child Attached
To Breast And Raised
By the Whole Village Even
The Thought of Child Separated
From Breast During A Day Feeling
Like the Worst Sin Possible to Do AS Human...
Ahem,
Do You
Know/Feel/Sense WHere
You Are Living Now Yet?
i Surely Will Still Relate if You Can And or Will Not....
You Know What, i Started Off Making Three Dollars And Sixty Nine
Cents In 1984, Serving Rental Shoes Across A Counter At A Military
Bowling Center; Hehe Most Definitely LoWesT Ladder Rung of Federal Service...
And Sure That Was After 3 Degrees All About Humanity; Health Science, Social
Sciences Interdisciplinary, And Anthropology Growing Up in an Old Shot-Gun
Century Old Home Nearly Worthless my Grandmother Owned Then Down-Town
On The River; What i Become Soon Enough is the Leaf of the Tree Before i Could Speak
At age 4, Looking Across that River to Forest Already Realizing That i Am That Leaf of That Tree
That Feeds This Tree That Falls to Soils Dead to Feed Dead Seeds Creating New Souls of Living Trees;
Now of course That Was Before i could Speak; i will Only Be Able to Relate The Feel And Sense of Being
All That is God
Within
me Well
After i Am
Able to Speak And
Put it into Words; Yet i will
Tell You This; i am no ISM, Now i am
The SaME ALL i AM Before God And So Are You;
Basically A MeSSaGE of JeSuS iN A Nut Shell; Dead Seed Leaf of Living Tree Still Now...
The ISM of Capital Made Me Money Rich As i Had Greater Love To Spend Than Buy things...
Dead
Things;
Dead Things
Like New Cars
Every Three Years...
Dead Things Like Bigger
Homes Every Seven Years;
And What Usually Happens
To Folks Who Love Their Four
Wheel Drives, Hunting, And Fishing
Just For the Sport of Killing 'Things'
More Than Their Wives; 3 Or 4 Wives
in Divorce; And 3 or 4 Sets of Children to
Support And A Huge Boat and Camper in
The Back Yard; The American Dream They Never
Get A Chance to Use or a Yacht in a Harbor That only
Serves A Yearly Garden Party in a Boat With Potted Plants;
The So Called
Modern
American
Capitalism Dream; The Grand Illusion
That Truly For Most Folks Is Just A Sell of Soul
For Anything Resembling Naked LoVE iN A Free
Dance and Song Free Of All the Chains oF Lies Becoming 'Things'; Yes The Tools We Create; Clothes We Wear
Becoming Us; So What has this American Dream Really Produced; Shells on A Lovely Beach With Very Little
'Sea Life'....
Lovism
Is My only
F in Naked
Dance And Song
ToGeTHeR Religion...
You Know, You Feel, You Sense
Or Do You, The One Promoted By
A Little Brown Man Like Puff the Magic Dragon
From 'Galilee'; Here's a Little Secret, The Story is Real
When You Become
'The Dragon'...
If You
Leave
Out the
Secret Magic
Ingredient of
Love You've Lost
The Religion; the Lovism....
i Used to Be the Dragon Now i Am the MaGiC....
When i Retired Early, My Father Whose 'Rationality' And
'Idea' About What is So Great About Being An American
Is Capitalism And The Goal of Getting Rich Was So Worried
That i Might
Need Some
Of His Resources
To Survive As He Retired
At Full Pay And Social Security
Benefits From A Law Enforcement
Career of 46 Years; Yet, His Life-Long Dream
of Becoming Rich Like My Uncle With A Dream
Home on Shalimar Point Bay Emerald Gulf Coast
Paradise on Earth; And Haha My Uncle Did it Selling Frigging
Vacuum Cleaners Starting at Sears; True i have Amazing Capitalists
in My Family Too Who Are Very Trump Supporting And Very Racist too...
Hating Homosexuals, Transgenders, And Other Differences in Humanity Like
That too Just Totally Opposite Of What Jesus If Actually Real By Story Will Do...
Thing is i Don't
Have to Have
A House in Paradise
As Puff the Magic Dragon
Has it All That's Possible Within
Love the Pure Agape Beyond All Distance
Time, Space And Matter; Even Quantum Mechanics Agrees With My Reality True...
Anyway, i Gently Broke The 'Good News' My Father Most Wanted to Be Surprised to
Hear as i Gave Him the Dollar Amount of His Idea of Riches in Life 6 Times More than
He Saved Close to His Dying Age of 81, Back on May 22nd of 2014, When i Early Retired
in 2008 At age 47... He Was Flabbergasted, i achieved His Dream When All He Ever Saw
me As was
A Minimum
Wage Employee
Who Totally Wasted
My Capital of ISM In Potential
In Stellar Measure of Only Standard IQ...
You Know, All Those Degrees That weren't Money MaKinG...
He Asked Me How In The World Did i Do It; i Tried to Be Gentle, Otherwise
Now Telling Him; Well Dear Old Dad i Didn't Move into a New Home Every
Seven Years, i Didn't Remarry 4 Times And even Twice to the Same Woman,
Never Learning Enough Emotional Intelligence For A Marriage to Thrive And
True i Lost Everything That Means Anything Of Life to me Doing it in the Same Dam
Job Working for the Federal Government in Golden Handcuffs For All of What A Lifelong
Retirement is Worth in Benefits of Health and Life Insurance too; Yes i Lost The Spirit of Love
The Part
i Was Rich
In From the Start
When You Told Mama
That If She Didn't Get A Job
You Were Gonna Leave As You
Found Someone For A While Who
Did Have A Good Job to Bring in Some Money...
You Waited to Leave Mama Until Age 3; Give You
Credit For That; All She Ever Wanted to Do Was Stay
At Home And Nourish Her Children With Love; i Got those
Best Three Years of Love Starting Attached to Breast Day and Night;
that Much You contributed to Family Life Dear Old Dad... And You Know
What Daddy
All These
So Called
Riches in the Bank;
Now All the Promise
of Golden Handcuffs
Of Retirement House
All Paid Off; Car All Paid
Off This Is what i will Tell Him
Today As i Will; The Only Virtue That Makes
Life Worth Living is Lovism; The Rest of it Can Stay in Hell in the Bank...
i'm Sure One Day When i'm Long Gone My Wife Will Still be Taken Care of...
For You
See that
is the only
Reason i Saved the Money...
She Still Has Trouble Understanding
What That means too Yet That's Okay
She Didn't Have the Mother You Found for me...
'Thanks Daddy..
You Found
The Greatest
Gift of All to Give me Mama...'
It's Worth Noting That Real Puff the MaGiC
Dragon Is Mama; She Still Breathes in my Love
Passing Away Back on 2.22.2017 Going
to Her Death Bed Appropriately
Then On Valentine's Day Not
Expected Then As Her Brain
Was Bleeding From Stage Four
Brain Cancer Starting at Breast
Moving Through Bone Cancer
All She Ever Complained of
For Two Years Was Arthritis
Did it with no more than
A Bayer Aspirin Beating
my Sister in Scrabble Even
With Brain Cancer Days Then
Before Her Death Bed; Yet It's
True Still Her Undying Love For
Her Children Still Enough to Kill
Pain And A Heart The Doctor
Said Was So Strong Even With
350 Cholesterol Count Never
Treated; the Only Reason She
Lasted 8 Days With No Food
Or Drink; For You See Love Is
What Truly Makes a HeART Strong
And Provides the Energy For
A Dude Turning 61 on 6.6.21
Still Leg Pressing Up to 1520
Pounds More Than Any Elite
Military Dude At the Military
Gym on That Machine that still
Provides The Strength it takes
To Dance in Public For 14,808
Miles in 92 Months; Only To
Bring Smiles to Other Folks;
Whether They Understand
i am A 'Wittiest Fool' or Not;
i Don't Take Kindly to Folks Who
Detach Babies From Mama's Breast....
It Almost Rages me to 'Turning Money
Tables Over' With Fiery Breath Still Now;
Yet On the Other Hand (The Right Mind)
Thankfully i am STiLL A MaGiC Dragon Who
Will Love
An Enemy
As The Same
FRiEnD oF LOVE (Real God)
Only 'Real Fools' Are Waiting
For (Godot) 'Jesus' to Return Only Those Who Are Not
Willing to DO THE REAL 'Puff A MaGiC DRaGoN' Work OF LOVE NOW And 'Believe'
That Reciting Old Words Out oF AN Old BooK MaKinG That Book God Is All It Takes...
THere is No
Other 'Reason'
For Now i Can And Will Find Now That
Explains Your Current 'Business Resolution' of 'This Loving Issue'..
Yet Still Of Course, Very Up Close And Personal, i STiLL Get WHere You Are Coming From...
It's
Simply
Fascinating;
It's The Human
Condition; It is What it is...
In Every BLaCK Abyss Shade And Color Folks
Dream Up Beyond Rainbows too And Bring to Fruition Now...
Being Human May Not Always Be Fun; Yet It Damned Sure is An Interesting Story...
It's Almost Like Some of Us Are Living On Earth So Differently In the Same Places...
These Shells Of
FlesH And Blood;
Obviously
All Of Us Are...
Again, the Human Condition...
More Specifically, GenerAlly, Overall,
Paradox of 'God Condition' Different Yet Whole too..
goldfish21
Veteran
Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
27 Apr 2021, 1:35 pm
AngelRho wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Actually, I believe people who work at McDonald's work pretty hard their whole shift. And they make crap money.
Exactly what I was thinking. I mean, of course they have breaks, but aside from that, people working with fast food tend to have their hands full. Sure, not every hour is a rush hour and some time of the day has less customers than others, but during those moments the workers do other stuff, like cleaning etc. plus there are usually less people working outside of rush hour, so they do have work.
To be fair, there's a wide variation in quality among McDonald's restaurants depending on what region it's in. The one I worked in was fairly decent MOST of the time. There were different (unwritten) rules depending on which manager was there and whether the franchise owner was on site. I was trained by one of the owners on how to clean and sanitize dishes, which when done right took some time. As soon as the owner would leave, one of the managers, and it was always the same one, would come back, take me off dish duty, and have me do something else. There was one or two others and half of everyone else working there who had terrible attitudes, and there were a couple guys I went to high school with who...just shouldn't have been trusted to serve any kind of food item.
But any time I've hit McDonald's north of Memphis and Nashville there's a completely different, positive attitude, and I've never had a problem with an order.
I think you really have to think about, I mean...in any good establishment, even fast food, unless you have to go on break you shouldn't ever stand still. After the lunch rush you have plenty of time to wipe down/sanitize tables, clean the restrooms, sweep the floor, empty grease traps, etc. The best ones I've been in I've noticed a lot of activity even when there weren't so many customers. Where I live, I don't really see that happening. It's more people standing around waiting for someone to tell them to do something. It makes sense to pay by the hour when there's work. But if that's not the case, then they should be paid by the items sold. If you KNEW your customer was giving you your paycheck, you'd be more motivated to reward your customer. In many places, fast food lacks a sense of gratitude among servers. Min wage seems to me largely ineffective when it comes to instilling such a sense of gratitude.
This is, in an accidental sort of way, exactly what I'm talking about. A min wage mandate carries with it the burden of knowing you are the lowest paid employee, the least valued. It doesn't matter if you're getting paid min wage or a living wage, it's all the same thing. It could be a billion dollars and still not be good enough because you still have to deal with being the least valued employee. A parental leave mandate cheapens the perk of having a company willingly offer it. If the company doesn't want you or value you, why do you want to work for them so bad? They HAVE to give you a certain entitlement and it's subsidized through the federal government. There's nothing special about it, and the nature of that means no matter what you get out of work, you'll never be satisfied with it. You might be thrilled to have parental leave, but then you'll start to ask, "Wait, I'm not a parent. Why should they get special treatment because they can have a baby but I can't? Shouldn't I deserve the same amount of time off at some point?" And what about couples who cannot have children of their own and can't afford adoption? Or don't have any other options? That's not fair to them. Shouldn't they have up to a year of time off? In fact...why should anyone even bother showing up to work at all? You get paid parental leave when you have children, you get paid for extended leave when you can't have children because it's only fair, so why not just everyone have a job they don't show up for? You get paid regardless, and you can claim any reason you want to not work.
But if a company believes that parenthood is special and valuable, they can support parental leave on their own and give employees the incentive both to have children AND to continue working afterwards. If someone says, "well, I can't have children, so it's not fair," someone can remind them to be grateful that they have a job at all. And if they stay loyal to the company, perhaps retiring a year early with a sizable pension might be in order. None of that matters if you have to force a company to do the right thing. You get better results if individuals act under objective, moral pressure rather than government force or people who don't have anything better to do than make up silly rules you have to follow. It all gets silly after a while.
Fast food workers who have solid work ethics & are proactive at keeping busy doing things of value move on to bigger better things and higher pay. There's a reason people in minimum wage jobs aren't typically the highest performing workers - but that doesn't mean they shouldn't earn enough for their labour to survive.
So then it's up to corporations who can afford to have kids or not?
Ridiculous thinking not really worth refuting tbh.
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.AngelRho
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27 Apr 2021, 3:31 pm
goldfish21 wrote:
So then it's up to corporations who can afford to have kids or not? Ridiculous thinking not really worth refuting tbh.
Ridiculous thinking not really worth refuting tbh.More straw man. If you're going to respond to me, respond to what I ACTUALLY said.
goldfish21
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28 Apr 2021, 11:01 pm
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
So then it's up to corporations who can afford to have kids or not? Ridiculous thinking not really worth refuting tbh.
Ridiculous thinking not really worth refuting tbh.More straw man. If you're going to respond to me, respond to what I ACTUALLY said.
Yeah, I did.
I think it's stupid to leave it up to a select handful of highly profitable corporations who Want to offer benefits to their employees, meaning that only those who work for them can easily afford to have children and everyone else has to struggle unnecessarily should they decide to start a family. That's just wrong.
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.
29 Apr 2021, 3:07 am
AngelRho
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01 May 2021, 9:13 am
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
So then it's up to corporations who can afford to have kids or not? Ridiculous thinking not really worth refuting tbh.
Ridiculous thinking not really worth refuting tbh.More straw man. If you're going to respond to me, respond to what I ACTUALLY said.
Yeah, I did.
I think it's stupid to leave it up to a select handful of highly profitable corporations who Want to offer benefits to their employees, meaning that only those who work for them can easily afford to have children and everyone else has to struggle unnecessarily should they decide to start a family. That's just wrong.
Non sequitur. You’re making the false assumption that “everyone has to struggle.” It’s logically possible that people can start their own business, offer superior benefits, and attract employees, forcing big business to keep up and adapt. No single corporation ever has that much of a grip on your daily life. Amazon, for instance, has more than significantly challenged Walmart, and I remember a time not two decades ago when all I heard was how evil Walmart was. Now the talk is how evil Amazon is. And the day will come when someone else challenges Amazon. And let’s not forget all the DIY’ers, the stay-at-home moms (and dads) who supplement family income with crafts and the rare MLM’s that are actually GOOD. Everyone wins when the Individual with ideas is king—when YOU are the monarch of your own life, when the CEO is the monarch over HIS life, and the consumer is monarch over HIS life.
We ALL have the ability to live like kings. The last 5 years we may have had limited income, but I was creatively free and we had all we needed. It was only when the school and church I worked for restricted my creative freedom and limited my ability to advance in my responsibilities that I chose to leave. That’s what reasonable people do. We realize that ultimately we are all SELF employed and can move around looking for the best deal. My new job alone pays more than last year’s day job for BOTH my wife and I, AND I’ve got a lead on another possible piano gig that would put me up past the level of last year’s church gig. If my wife’s business takes off, that could be a HUGE moneymaker. I’m trying to convince her to make Tiffany lampshades, which, you know, even knockoffs command a pretty high price (It’s actually the lamp bases that are so expensive).
Who’s stopping us? Walmart? Amazon? What about Hobby Lobby since they’re the only stained glass supplier here? No, we had Delphi Glass ship a couple crates of bulk glass. After slaving away for a week grinding down picture frames, we decided we were done and ordered some tools to cut straight lines. We’re watching YouTube videos, connecting with other artists. I’m using a vector graphics app to design new patterns. We have people asking about our website which is as yet non-existent. The only people standing in our way are ourselves.
Same with my music biz. I have to focus on what’s making money right now, which is my school, church, and comping gigs. I have my first wedding at my new location lined up for late June. I need to start a band and line up some more solo gigs, but there’s no rush, no one getting in my way. I have more competition here, yes, but I’m not just any ordinary pianist. I do things differently and insist on a more contemporary, free, and open sound, and I don’t let brides or their mothers control my creative decisions when I play weddings. You hire me because you like what I do and want what I have to offer. If you want stale, old-fashioned, recycled, cookie-cutter trash, there are PLENTY pianists in the area you can hire. But there is only one Rho, and there will always only BE one Rho. I’ve even met some of my competition, and guess what? I know who to call whenever I need a sub for a gig when I can’t make it. I can work things out with competitors and COOPERATE if I ever get spread too thin, and I don’t have to worry about what could happen if someone likes my sub better than me. First of all, they’re not better. Second, even if they were, I have no insecurities and accept that people who hire me can just as easily fire me if they can find a better deal. That’s all part of it and what motivates us to keep our game always on point.
I’m not simply bragging about how great things are for me. I’m saying no one owns us or has that much control over us. Don’t like big corps? Don’t buy from Amazon or Walmart. Or Microsoft or Apple. I prefer an Apple computer, but we have two Raspberry Pi’s running Linux. There has been an entire community of creatives, makers, DIYers customizing and prototyping, and neither Microsoft nor Apple can stop them. If you can’t find attractive work prospects, create your own and control your own schedule. No one offers parental leave? Be the first. Create a business that values and fosters families. Some bigger businesses have begun operating in-house daycares as a perk to keep employees from having to spend half their paycheck on childcare. In fact...the way I got back into teaching was reaching an agreement with the school that my 3yo would be with me in my classroom. No baby, no dice. When my youngest was old enough for school and we could afford pre-k, my high school kids started asking where he was and why he didn’t come to my band class anymore. See? You need a specific perk, you just ask.
You already have the right to do that. Why do you have to have the force of government to get your way? It amounts to, as I see it, jealousy of creative people who become wealthy through creative, productive work. You’re jealous of those who have commanded and earned such a high level of autonomy. You have a desire to bully them, and the government offers a means by which you can hold intelligent people hostage from doing what they love. Why do you need the government for that? All you have to do is give your talent and ability to another company that treats you better and desires you enough to offer perks like parental leave and even in-house childcare. As a consumer, you possess the strength of personal wealth that you can control, affecting which businesses make more profit and which businesses will fail. You can take action simply by buying things or not to bankrupt corporations. You don’t need government for that.
But if you allow or insist that government regulates businesses, you fundamentally take that power away from workers and consumers. The US auto industry has been irreparably damaged because through the actions of unions and government, the big three automakers were declared “too big to fail” and bailed out. There was a grand opportunity for brilliant designers and factory workers to strike out on their own, develop new technologies, and push the envelope in style, luxury, fuel economy, safety, utility, etc., and WE BLEW IT. Don’t get me started on why the hell are we still dependent on the effing internal combustion engine??? We had the opportunity to revolutionize personal transportation, and we lost it to greed. I will never get over my fury over that until we have workable, affordable, flying cars that don’t require fossil fuels. I want a warp engine, damnit, and won’t be happy until I get it. But that’s what these backwards-thinking bastards have us stuck with. Your insistence on pushing an agenda through government force is what’s keeping us from having and doing better.
