Has anyone actually read the Bible?

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What's your problem with me thinking that I am? Why the ire? Why does it make you, and others, upset that I believe in God? That's the real issue. I can give, and have given, countless reasons why I believe, and you and others have not listened.

"Then they asked him, 'What did he (Jesus) do to you? How did he open your eyes?' He answered, 'I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?' "

That's my question to you.

I think it's because it is 2007 and any idea of a belief in God is utterly insane. It's like choosing to watch a 12" black and white TV when you could get yourself a 52" Plasma with surround sound.

They want to help you out of your self deception as it is damaging to yourself and those few around you.

They want to help you Ragtime, they want to help you.

You can grow little buddy, you can grow.

I feel the love.

sniff, sniff

What's insane is to outrightly claim that God cannot exist.

God is the random force the Universe exerts as life.

the current of being that makes being possible

True, but, for example, my arm is not "me". You're seeing part of God. Then, you're claiming that's all of Him. I guess it's not so much that I believe in God and you don't, but rather, I believe in more of God than you do.

By your line of reasoning, all of recorded history is reduced to "just stories and folklore." There is far more evidence to show the transmitted accuracy and archaeological support for most of the New Testament than there is for, say, Julius Caesar's History of the Peloponnesian War. Yet no one considers that a story or folklore.


I've mentioned it before elsewhere, but I'll mention it again here. It's really very simple if you take this verse in the light of the whole of Jesus' sayings.

If you make it stand alone, it sounds like Jesus is saying that Christians need to follow the entirety of Judaic law. But this is absurd, since it comes right in the middle of a sermon wherein Jesus expounds points of that law, then by divine fiat changes those very laws. "This is what you've heard [in the Torah]... but I say to you..."

Jesus later in this very sermon however explains exactly what he means by "the law and the prophets." In that we are to keep "the law and the prophets" (of which he explains elsewhere that he himself is the fulfillment), Jesus explains in Matthew 7:12: "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." This is essentially a rewording of his contemporary, Rabbi Hillel, except that Jesus expressed it in the positive. Jesus reiterates this in Matthew 22:40 when he says that the greatest commandments are to love God and love your neighbor, and stresses, "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." So "The Law and the Prophets" is a summation of the old law that becomes a new law, the law of Love. This echoes the prophecy of Jeremiah, that in the last days there would come a new covenant that would supplant the old covenant (the Jewish law), which would be written not on tablets of stone, in rules and regulations, but on the human heart, a law of love.

yeah, i get really tired of dense mcPagans and thick mcAtheists forcing apologetics upon people who want to discuss christian matters. If you want to debate the existence of god or just pour scorn on believers there's plenty of apologetics site around, thats what they exist for. do a google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_apologetics

I don't need to justify it to anyone.

It just seems to me that you holier-than-thou Christians have started up the 11th century crusades again, and are trying to convert everyone to your beliefs, not giving a rat's arse about what we believe. Are you so anally retentive and ignorant to the possibility that there is more to life than God and his works that you fail to see there IS more to this universe? Ragtime, I was merely trying to ascertain the actual fact behind what you keep quoting; as you only really have your faith as well as the book to back you up. The Postperson craps on about McPagans and McAtheists, virtually saying that everyone better listen to the Christian point of view, because any other new ideas (or just any OTHER ideas, for that matter) are just plain BS. I wish you lot would stop trying to make out that your god is the only one and that you are the only ones that are right and everyone else is wrong and that all of us others are going to your so-called 'hell', because frankly we are all sick of it. And, BTW JohnnyBGoode, what I ACTUALLY said was that TO ME the bible is just a lot of stories and folklore; the point about Caesar's documentation of the Peloponnesian war is not exactly correct, because at the time those wars happened, Caesar had more eyewitnesses to document his case than the writers of the gospels had when they retold their stories. As I have ALSO said, if you guys want to believe in your god etc, fine; just stop rolling your eyes and trying to convert us just because we DON'T believe.

Postperson: I don't have to justify myself to you either, and all this apologist crap is just another Christian paranoia trip.

Hey, we're not the ones that come into every thread on religion going *snerk* *teehee* there is no god *snerk* *giggle* get a sanity check *snerk* *guffah*. Who's doing all the eyerolling here? And when our beliefs are attacked, do you really think we'll just sit back and not defend ourselves? You atheists can mock and ridicule Christians all you want, and we're not supposed to say anything at all in return, we're just supposed to sit here and take it? Is that how this works?

And seriously, a Crusade? Hyperbole much? I don't see anyone stringing you up on a rack or putting you to a sword. If you can't stand that we counter your arguments with strong arguments of our own... get out of the kitchen.

I mean, seriously.... I wasn't expecting a sort of Spanish Inquisition...

Last edited by JonnyBGoode on 21 Aug 2007, 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That's a good question, I see that he always back up his arguments with the bible and he says he knows the "truth", at the same time he goes against other religions, that makes me wonder why he does have the "truth" and the others don't, which he claims with arrogance that he does. We already know for sure that there are many interpretations of the bible, but his is suppose to be the right one.


I believe you know what it is.


We listen, we just don't believe the same thing you do
Most likely you are the one who actually don't listen.

go to an apologetics site. stop boring me.

I see your point, but our good friend Raggy always goes with his religion beliefs everywhere it seems, that's ok for me, but when it comes to touchy subjects like homosexuality he doesn't stop, does he? then they feel offended and insulted, now I ask you the same question: Would they just sit back and not defend themselves?

All you Christian have had 2000 years of saying what you want, and converting everyone to your beliefs, whether it be Inquisitions or whatever means, and then you have the cheek to say that we are picking on you - bloody hypocrites as usual. If you are so paranoid about your beliefs, that is not MY problem, that is yours. Maybe you could do with a reality check, because there are plenty of people on this planet that refuse to accept your point of view because they have their own beliefs (muslims, Buddhists, Hindus etc). And to prove my point on anal-retentiveness, you can't seem to tell the difference between Pagan and atheist. I am Pagan, not atheist, do pay attention when somebody writes something next time... As I said, and you even failed to get that, I said believe what you want, just stop trying to convert everyone else.

Anyway, just who do you you think you are having a go at me when I'm not the only one here who doesn't believe in your god, and doesn't agree with your point of view? What about calandale, greenblue and others? I think it's just damn rude of you to single ME out in this because I have had the guts to put forward my view which just happens to disagree with yours.

BTW Postperson: if you were such a holier-than-thou Christian anyway, you'd take on board one of your own lord's teachings; turn the other cheek.

you're little boy aren't u?