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Aradford
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16 Aug 2007, 6:36 pm

You got it yet? Jesus is just a symbol.

There wasn't some guy named Jesus, he had some other name and his story was sensationalized in the bible... you know to make it interesting because real life is boring.



Aradford
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16 Aug 2007, 6:39 pm

And "looking at humanity" can show me that GOD isn't real, not Jesus. Silly aspie. Stop twisting my words.



greenblue
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16 Aug 2007, 6:48 pm

Maybe Jesus had Asperger's Syndrome?


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Ragtime
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16 Aug 2007, 7:06 pm

Aradford wrote:
Jesus isn't real as in there wasn't a guy names Jesus like there was in the bible. It is real in the sense that it symbolically depicts the nature of the true individual against the herd.

Jesus was many people. Hitler, Napoleon, Nietzsche, Tim Leary...

There's some evidence of Jesus.


Actually, Hitler was an Antichrist. There isn't just The Antichrist -- there are several that precede him. This is mentioned in 1 John 2:18.


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Aradford
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16 Aug 2007, 7:36 pm

So in the bible it says "Hitler is an Antichrist?"

How did they know?!?!

That still doesn't rule out the fact that he fits the definition of a true individual against the herd.



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17 Aug 2007, 12:07 am

Ragtime: er I hate to point this out to you, but John does not mention 'antichrist'; he says 'beast'. The antichrist he was speaking of was Nero, around the time of the fall of Rome. Because of the likelihood that he would have been killed for heresy, he couldn't actually come out and say who was who, so the message was coded and written after the event (John was in roughly his 90s by then). Mark is the only one who mentioned an 'anti-christ', and that was in reference to the Romans trying to bring the Christian faction into line in the 30 years after Christ's death. Had they used all the books that were meant to be published, then the political meaning would have not had the impact that it did have. Times were very scary for those people back then, and any amount of spin that could be used, even selective editing, would have helped the religious cause.

Oh, and BTW, Sodom was destroyed in an earthquake and volcanic eruption sometime between 2700 BCE and 2500 BCE. Sodom and Gomorrah lay on the shores of the Dead Sea, and the Sodomite economy relied heavily on the trade of asphalt, which there was plenty of. It has been discovered that a fault line lies under the area, stretching most of the way along the coast and when the earthquake struck and the gasses from inside the earth came to the surface with the eruption, the asphalt caught fire and that's where the brimstone came into it. The ground that the cities stood on then suffered liquifaction, and both cities sank into the Dead Sea. The volcanic eruption also caused a pyroclastic flow which spewed out tons of ash (similar to what happened to Pompeii), and that also explains how Lot's wife got turned into a pillar of salt; she got carbonized from the falling ash. No hand of God, just a natural event that, because no-one was able to explain such things back then, they said it must have been God punishing them for their sins.


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AlexC179
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17 Aug 2007, 12:39 am

Ragtime wrote:
Aradford wrote:
Jesus isn't real as in there wasn't a guy names Jesus like there was in the bible. It is real in the sense that it symbolically depicts the nature of the true individual against the herd.

Jesus was many people. Hitler, Napoleon, Nietzsche, Tim Leary...

There's some evidence of Jesus.


Actually, Hitler was an Antichrist. There isn't just The Antichrist -- there are several that precede him. This is mentioned in 1 John 2:18.


Well the antichrist was supposed to desecrate the temple mount. Muhammed and his followers are basically responsible for tearing down Solomon's Temple (it is noted as existed by the Romans). That is pretty close to desecrating the temple. That and he ascended in front of 400 or so odd witnesses to heaven on the temple mount while declaring himself as the true prophet of God.



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17 Aug 2007, 5:04 am

Aradford wrote:
So in the bible it says "Hitler is an Antichrist?"
.


I'm convinced he was the messiah.
He brought the country of Israel into
existence - effectively.



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17 Aug 2007, 8:26 am

calandale wrote:
Aradford wrote:
So in the bible it says "Hitler is an Antichrist?"
.


I'm convinced he was the messiah.
He brought the country of Israel into
existence - effectively.


That's the kind of thing God has historically liked to do -- twist the ways of evil men into good for His people.


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JonnyBGoode
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17 Aug 2007, 10:06 am

The_Chosen_One wrote:
Ragtime: er I hate to point this out to you, but John does not mention 'antichrist'; he says 'beast'. The antichrist he was speaking of was Nero, around the time of the fall of Rome.

Well technically, in his epistles, John says that many antichrists would come. Although he hints there at an ultimate antichrist.


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Sopho
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17 Aug 2007, 11:48 am

hitler's in the bible? cool.



rideforever
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17 Aug 2007, 3:21 pm

Believing in things is part of the human experience, so maybe believing in something supernatural is actually OK. As long as it comes from you. As long as it comes from your experience.


But being part of the Christian religion or any other group where what you are supposed to believe is passed to you instead of originating within you - that is not to be respected.



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17 Aug 2007, 3:32 pm

rideforever wrote:
Believing in things is part of the human experience, so maybe believing in something supernatural is actually OK. As long as it comes from you. As long as it comes from your experience.


But being part of the Christian religion or any other group where what you are supposed to believe is passed to you instead of originating within you - that is not to be respected.


Of course, every Christian has a personal spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ, who lives within them, so Christianity meets both your criteria. But I'm glad you didn't disqualify Christianity; I was scared that I'd have to stop being a Christian because you said so! :o Can we set up a poll to ask how many people would change / have changed their religion in response to your post?


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rideforever
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17 Aug 2007, 3:51 pm

Ragtime wrote:
..

You misunderstand me.

Your belief in the Christian God is exactly the kind of thing that deserves no respect. Instead of looking inside yourself and feeling something for yourself, someone else's beliefs have been pushed inside your head. Your thoughts are not your own.



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17 Aug 2007, 3:59 pm

rideforever wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
..

You misunderstand me.

Your belief in the Christian God is exactly the kind of thing that deserves no respect. Instead of looking inside yourself and feeling something for yourself, someone else's beliefs have been pushed inside your head. Your thoughts are not your own.


Precisely wrong. From age 3, I knew God personally.


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17 Aug 2007, 4:10 pm

rideforever wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
..

You misunderstand me.

Your belief in the Christian God is exactly the kind of thing that deserves no respect. Instead of looking inside yourself and feeling something for yourself, someone else's beliefs have been pushed inside your head. Your thoughts are not your own.

I personally have zero respect for anyone who does not raise their children to believe something. Whether it is Christianity or even rabid atheism. To bring up a child and basically say, "about the deeper things of life, sorry kid, I've got nothing to offer you." Or worse - "I do, but I'm not going to pass it on to you, figure it out your own damn self." - to me, that's horrific parenting.

I believe every parent has a responsibility to teach their children a belief and value system. You say that deserves no respect - I say it deserves the highest respect.


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