I'm sick of young Americans obsessing over communism!

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RedDeathFlower13
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13 Dec 2023, 9:27 am

belijojo wrote:

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

See the whole moral flipping thing doesnt work on me. My sister also tried to convince me that the Cubans who fled Castro were all "slave owners".

If people truly don't want communism in their country they have a right to fight against it. Was it wrong to "persecute" the Nazis after WW2 given what they did?

Look at their smear campaign against communism! Did the Nazis also become communists? So why did the Soviet Union attack it instead of giving him funding and a pass to join the Soviet Union? You illustrate exactly what I mean by the smear campaign against communists.

You completely missed my point on purpose, didnt you?

I guesa its useless arguing with people who suffer from any kind of cult mentality I guess.

Tell ya what, gather all your friends and try pulling a "Cultural Revolution" like Mao's Red Army did in China. If you guys pull it off through violent revolution then maybe I'll shut my mouth about why I distrust communism so much.

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Readydaer
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13 Dec 2023, 9:36 am

if you're only discussing this to try and prove your point and will never be convinced of other points of views, let alone respect them, then why bother talking about this?

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RedDeathFlower13
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13 Dec 2023, 9:44 am

Readydaer wrote:

if you're only discussing this to try and prove your point and will never be convinced of other points of views, let alone respect them, then why bother talking about this?

I guess that is a good question. :chin:

I guess it's because I don't like the direction my country is headed in, I'm tired of being silenced by certain people when I express concerns about the future, and I need somewhere to vent and express myself.

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belijojo
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13 Dec 2023, 9:54 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

You said I missed your point, and I hope you express it rigorously. I believe we have the same pursuit If we must win the battle to prove my correctness, then the correctness of the countries is as follows: United States ，Soviet Union， nazi，Other European countries
I hope we can get the correct answer through communication, just like mao expected

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belijojo
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13 Dec 2023, 10:21 am

Wait, does your sister support putting gays in jail?
I sympathize with you and hope you have the ability to understand complex things.
Supporting communism does not exactly mean supporting a certain regime. At the same time, a certain regime making wrong decision does not necessarily mean that it deserves to die. As you try to piss me off but you are an easy going person.
Your Lord bless you

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Nades
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13 Dec 2023, 10:23 am

Readydaer wrote:

Nades wrote:

There are plenty of start-ups that are successful, even with competition from large, well established companies. How would a start-up survive in a communist nation where private ownership of any wealth generating business is illegal? Answer....they can't.

Soviet Russia had a terrible economy that wasn't able to compete on the world stage. The only decent innovation they showed was with submarines and rocketry but mostly with the intentions to kill. Are the Soviets your benchmark for a good system of government/economy? I certainly wouldn't consider China to be communist too, they're cut throat capitalists with government ministers shoving their fingers in every pie they can find along the way.

What if someone's ability is still below the average? You might find he general public becoming very intolerant of people like autistics if they get paid the same for doing half the job or more likely, being forced to do the same jobs as NT's. Autistics struggle with employment and it'll be no different in a communist nation.

the point is that that isn't necessary :roll:

why does profit mean everything???

are you trolling right now? wasn't able to compete on the world stage? my man tell that to the red scare USA. also again, China is not capitalist. literally read their Wikipedia article.

i'd think they'd get a job specific to their abilities, if possible, but I admit I haven't put much thought into that situation so I'll concede that point for now.

Are you going down the "money is a social construct" route as is typical for communism debates?

The whole reason why money exists is because the world became impractical without it. Money is just a way to attach value to work, skills, items and services.

Nades
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13 Dec 2023, 10:29 am

Readydaer wrote:

Nades wrote:

Marx was a mother and a freeloader. He had plenty of time to think but no practical experience......like at all.

When money is actually involved, his theories will fall apart.

not really. there are several companies doing quite well right now where everyone from the CEO to the employees make the same amount, although it's only really been implemented on a small scale due to greed. the example I'll use is Madeline Pendleton's business Tunnel Vision. She and her 9 full-time employees all have the same exact salary, and as far as I know it's still going.

It might work with a small company, but what about a much larger company? It'll go down like a lead balloon in the company I work for. Engineers being paid the same as the cleaners? Not in a million years will that work and we quickly end up with a phenomenon called a "brain drain"

What if an engineer wants to be paid more than the cleaner?

belijojo
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13 Dec 2023, 10:32 am

Nades wrote:

The whole reason why money exists is because the world became impractical without it. Money is just a way to attach value to work, skills, items and services.

You are right, but I think there are some problems in such a world. People who don't love money will not be rich, and people who don't have money will suffer.
I'm guessing you're supporting money simply because there's no better alternative rather than it being the best. Is it right?

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RedDeathFlower13
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13 Dec 2023, 10:36 am

belijojo wrote:

My Lord? I have none! :lol:

And no my sister doesnt support locking homosexuals up in concentration camps. She actually supports LGBTQ rights. But what bothered me was how dismissive she was of me when I told her about horrible things Fidel did to homosexuals in Cuba.

I felt like it was rather hypocritical for her to be such an advocate for LGBTQ rights and to act dismissive not only towards me but every homosexual who was ever a victim under Fidel Castro's reign.

Does that make any kind of sense?

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Readydaer
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13 Dec 2023, 10:47 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

it does make sense, but idk if you know the full story; Castro later publicly apologized for his actions and worked to get lgbt rights up to speed, and now Cuba is one of more advanced countries regarding that. NOTE that I am not excusing what he did, I'm saying there are reasons to sympathize with the cause.

It's also worth noting that you can support certain aspects of a person and not others. J.K. Rowling is a terrible human being, but Harry Potter got popular for a reason. Stalin was incredibly paranoid and made some tiny oopsies in the realm of millions of deaths (p.s. I'm being ironic with 'oopsies') but he still did a lot of good for Russia

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Nades
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13 Dec 2023, 10:48 am

The Red scare was nothing to do with economics too, it was mainly about a hostile, heavily armed state with an atrocious human rights record intimidating the west with said armed forces and weapons.

I hope you're not of the opinion that the Red Scare was actually a good thing that somehow bolsters the stance that communism is good because views like that are worrying.

belijojo
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13 Dec 2023, 10:53 am

You are a smart man! I'm glad you stopped attacking and actually talked about what's bothering you.
You must have heard the saying that there is no such thing as the best of both worlds.
A regime cannot unite the majority while remaining correct. Just like you can't teach dining etiquette when there's a famine. Supporting a regime requires that it have the highest possible support rate on the premise that the general direction is correct.
I don’t know the specific country you are talking about. I guess it is so backward that 90% of the people discriminate against homosexuals. Of course, this is just my guess.
I hope you will continue to express your doubts
Typing on the phone is maddening

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Nades
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13 Dec 2023, 11:00 am

belijojo wrote:

Nades wrote:

The whole reason why money exists is because the world became impractical without it. Money is just a way to attach value to work, skills, items and services.

I think it's best to rephrase a dislike of money to dislike of value. If someone genuinely does dislike money, then they're probably not doing anything valuable.

This is completely different to people who are genuinely down on their luck and living in poverty though.

belijojo
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13 Dec 2023, 11:03 am

Nades wrote:

I hope you're not of the opinion that the Red Scare was actually a good thing that somehow bolsters the stance that communism is good because views like that are worrying.

Extreme people are annoying
Extreme regimes are resisted
I am extreme because I am too young and time will mellow out everything.
I'll become you when I'm as old as you

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Nades
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13 Dec 2023, 11:06 am

belijojo wrote:

Nades wrote:

I hope you're not of the opinion that the Red Scare was actually a good thing that somehow bolsters the stance that communism is good because views like that are worrying.

Extreme people are annoying
Extreme regimes are resisted
I am extreme because I am too young and time will mellow out everything.
I'll become you when I'm as old as you

Sorry I forgot to quote. That comment was for Readydaer

belijojo
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13 Dec 2023, 11:09 am

Nades wrote:

This is completely different to people who are genuinely down on their luck and living in poverty though.

I have this understanding: the people who create the most value do not get the most money. Does this phenomenon exist in your regime? If not, I support the mainstream thinking of your regime, which guides more successful practices

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