White Muslims?

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Apologies to one and all. I should never ever post on politics or religion. It really rips my knitting and I descend into rant.
If anyone spots me posting on these subjects again, call me a doctor.

are you kidding? veritable voice of sanity I'd say mate, stick around

(thinks: if jb814 feels that way, what does that say about me?)

[moment of introspective self-analysis completed, return to task]

I posted a couple of times today and don't even remember what was in them. I lose the rag then control of the tone and content of what I'm saying. Anyway here is a link to a chappie from Manhatten who comes out with similar things, but in an organised manner.
http://www.stallman.org/#politics

i second what rumio said, although without the self introspection...

/me knows she's considered a loud-mouthed, opinionated cow, but she's used to it, and would rather be thought of as such than let dodgy things go unchallenged.

I just find it funny to see any white Brit trying to wear "ethnic" clothes, whether it's muslim dress, buddhist robes, gangsta rapper clothes etc.

They are probably looking for attention. Most british pakistani muslims dont wear traditional muslim dress so any white brit that does most likely is sick and tired of being an average joe and wants to feel special.At least they dont usually try to pressurise everyone into giving them money like those Harri Krishna guys in my town centre while at the same time trying to look like a holy monk from the far east.

Last edited by eamonn on 11 Aug 2005, 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Resident do-gooder vv strikes again. If you have gave an opinion on anything i am yet to notice. All i see is you pretending to be a liberal crusader by cheerleading the minority view on everything even when it is just as or more fascist than the right wing Bnp view that you so despise.

sorry you've interpreted it like that, eamonn. if you want clarification, please ask - i'm better with specifics than generalities.

You seem to be agreing with everything rumio and that guy from glasgow says. You seem to like pointing out generalising when its against men and agreing when people generalise against christians and men but not when it comes to minorities or women it seems. There are lots of things about europe that i dont like but i or you wont likely be moving to somewhere more fascist like the middle east.

JB has been striving to be fair but i dont believe anyone who tries to give one-sided versions of things. Do you believe 9/11 was a plot against muslims and that christians are to blame for the worlds ills and that muslims are more tolerant than christians because if you dont then stop cheerleading the people behind comments like these. If i was to suggest that none of the iraqi people died by american bombs and that it was muslims that done it (im not) you would siggest i was being fascist but that 9/11 comment was just as bad and your only comments are to show "solidarity" to the people that are being one sided towards muslims.

point of interest - so far, on this board, i've been called a left wing extremist, a liberal do-gooder and a fascist (forgive me if i paraphrase). i do wish people would make their minds up.

back to eamonn... you're right - i haven't made myself clear.

so... i try to see both sides of the argument, if you like. yes, christians have done some atrocious things; yes, so have muslims. (i'll stick to these two groups, for simplicity, and for the time being). but i still maintain that it's dodgy to lump all members of these groups - or of any group - together, and say they're all the same. or that one is better than another. (the BNP is a different matter - they're mostly scum, with a hefty dollop of stupid people who don't think for themselves, and follow blindly).

i try NOT to generalise about men, insofar as men per se are concerned. if i am generalisng (and perhaps you could specify where, and what i've said), then i hope it's about sexism, homophobia and the like, and not about men per se. if it appears i AM generalising, then it's a political thing (which, in the case of "isms" IS a pervasive issue, which may be misconstrued as generalising). and i'm not talking party political, either, but political with a small "p".

the other point - which i obviously haven't made clear, as yet - is that it's very trendy to bash muslims at the moment. this particular group just happens to be the "in thing" to have a go at, for very obvious reasons. however, groups such as lepers, heretics, Jews, witches, christians, (i probably haven't got them in the correct order, but you can check Carlo Ginzberg's "Ecstasies" for the reference) catholics, the CofE, black people, women, etc., etc., have been similarly treated throughout the ages. i believe it's called "scapegoating" (in the sociological rather than the biblical sense). i try not to blame someone else or other groups for the ills of the world, as i see those ills as partly my responsiblity, and so i fight for what i preceive to be right. maybe i get it wrong - i research it, to minimalise this, though. and this research means listening to the opinions of others, whether i agree with them or not. you might want to look at the thread about the murder of craig sorger, if you're interested, as i don't want to repeat my arguments about personal responsibility here:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... 86&start=0

i'm not suggesting everyone converts to The Philosophy of Vivi on the instant, but in my (long) experience, it seems the best philosophy to me.

thanks for pointing out my wooliness in expressing myself, though, eamonn - it does one good to tighten up what one's saying. anything else i need to explain, please tell me (and i'm not being sarcastic - i genuinely want to know).

I have read you point out generalisations at least twice in thread about women going for arrogant men but join in with the thread about men wanting good looking girls. There are generalisations everywhere and i do it all the time and find some things funny that could be percieved as an ism like when a member posted about atheism being a religion like bald being a hair colour funny (so did you i believe) despite being folically challenged (tends to happen more to males so could come across as sexist but im not quick to believe that was what was intended) and an atheist but you get offended at them a little too easy when it comes to women or minorities imo and come across as taking the moral highground so all im saying is if you take the highground then be a bit chooseir about who you agree with and be evenhanded with every group. I believe you are against discrimination but try to be aware that minorities can be wrong and do all the isms too.

i am aware of that - if one doesn't do as you suggest, then it's just tokenism at best, and patronising (which is still part of the "ism") at worst. people are people, and just because they belong to a particular group doesn't make them saints or devils (i'm using generalised terminology here, by the way - don't get me on REAL angels...). except for the BNP, of course...

besides - if you read my posts on this thread, you'll see that i have problems with the attitude of some followers of islam towards women. (i also have problems with the attitude of some women towards men, believe or not - "all men are rapists" is nonsense).

have we cleared this up, yet?

Ok. I believe you but try to stick to the airy fairy parts of your beliefs and leave the politics to the big boys pet.

sticks and stones, eamonn, sticks and stones.

Deep breaths,
If you don't try to see the whole picture and instead go along with the subversion of the subversion... of events that your interest group has, then you are really dealing with mythology and not the world. To suggest that loyalty my kind, country, religion or whatever should take precenence over fact does a disservice to everyone. OK have sympathy with, defend within the facts, etc, but you still have to find out what is going on in the first place. I never liked mythology and would rather make my own mind up about things.
generalizations are myths really.
My central belief is that people of whatever faith, creed, colour or background are just human. The person next to you in the street is unlikely to think commiting any of the major crimes from history on his own without being largely brainwashed into thinking it's a good thing.
The selective presentation of information provides that brainwashing. The "us" and "them" mentality that prevents people from seeing other people with problems and grievances. For the average person in this country there is a much better chance of being killed by a motorist than any non representative extreme muslim group. I don't see anyone calling for motorists to be treated in a proportionate manner, despite the threat they pose to the population. You are more likely to be murdered, raped or beaten by friends and family, but I see no parents rushing to put their children out of reach. The use of selective material is a very dangerous thing. Instead of sitting here thinking about the negative aspects of those you are told are a threat, go and find out about them.

Last edited by jb814 on 11 Aug 2005, 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.