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Who is in the wrong?
Israel 19%  19%  [ 10 ]
Mainly Israel 24%  24%  [ 13 ]
Netrual 24%  24%  [ 13 ]
Mainly Palestine 20%  20%  [ 11 ]
Palestine 13%  13%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 54

ruveyn
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23 Sep 2009, 5:19 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:

You are talking to me as if the Arab world is one country, the Arab world is not one country and each country seek its own benefits and security. Arabs talk too much about Palestine cause but not the Lebaneses , we already scarified a lot.



I think you mean to say Muslim world. Indonesia is majority Muslim and not the least bit Arab. Likewise Egypt, Iran (formerly Persia where the language is Farsi, not Arabic), Algeria etc.. Only Saudi Arabia and the Emirates are really Arab. But all these places are Muslim of various sects. The biggest sects are the Sunni and the Shi'i.

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27 Sep 2009, 11:37 am

nara44 wrote:
phil777 wrote:
. "Don't make a state before the palestinians do! You're supposed to do it at the same time they do!" -brits go away... "pop" new state. UN: WTF? I've run out of sympathy for them, i don't think they shouldn't have been given a place to live, but the way they did it (through force and deceit) is wrong. (important distinction to make, not all israelis are jews, they can be zionist which is only a splinter sect of the jew diaspora and those are the ones who support the existence of Israel)


Typically,
U and the other ppl on this thread have no clue or any real info on the subject,
Fact is,
The Jews accept the UN partition plan while the Arabs reject it and 5 Arab nations attacked Israel the day it was born,
I don't know where u got the""Don't make a state before the Palestinians do! You're supposed to do it at the same time they do!" but it is very funny,
next time try to open a book and do some actual reading.
Israel has declares many time it willing to withdraw from the territories she occupied in a war forced on her,
but as the withdrawal from Gaza proves,
first it need some trustworthy partners and an honest pact,
Israel gave Sinai Back to the Egypt and made peace with Jordan,
But the many Attempts made to appease the Palestinians ended with slaughtered Israeli civilians,
If u knew anything about Israel u know it is very small place,
smaller than some of the world cities and there is no way it can handle the return of the refugees without falling apart.
Personally i think Israel should do more but i think it is very stupid and ill informed to place all the blame on Israel.


i Thought Aspies suppose to be learned,informed and impartial,
u r obviously a fake.




Thank you! I couldn't have said it better. The Palestinians under Hamas duress will not rest until one of the Islamic nations nukes Israel. Their holy books command it. Mohamed commanded it.



skafather84
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27 Sep 2009, 12:06 pm

nara44 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
that was the start of it. they still need to work on the whole "prejudice the civil and religious rights" of palestinians...but i think the israeli government sees such concepts as null with the arab-israeli war of 1948 (which didn't include palestine though soldiers from egypt** fought under a palestinian name financed through amin al-husseini).
**typo fixed.


The British Didn't kept their promises to the Jews,
They fought,arrested,hanged,expelled the Jews and blocked the their immigration.

Words are meaningless in the world of politics,
And since the Jews support was guaranteed to the British as they were fighting the Nazis,
they decided to move their support to the Palestinians who support the Nazis in order to appease them.
while Palestinians didn't took part in the 5 armies that attacked Israel they fought the Jews as part of local groups and gangs and many times where much more effective and lethal than the big Arab armies.




Again,
In Israel u r free to practice any religion u like,
While in the countries around us u don't,
it's simple as that.
Under Israel Muslims can pray at their holy place,
Where under Jordan Jews were forbid access the their holiest of places.


Racist.

Seriously: How can a state be viable and claim any kind of equality when the rhetoric alone is about an insular fear of persecution from the outside world and an unwillingness to cooperate. Any kind of criticism of Israel is met with two things: cries of racism/Antisemitism and a boycott.

Diplomacy can't be achieve by (metaphorically) plugging your ears and yelling while you're being criticized.

Also, there's still settlements, Gaza is still showing evidence of a very obvious genocide on the part of the Israelis*


*Note: Israelis, not Jews. Quit being racist and using terminology that draws others to follow your verbiage and open themselves to strawman claims of Antisemitism.


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04 Oct 2009, 6:59 am

LePetitPrince wrote:
You idiot

Stop judging me, racist scum.


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ruveyn
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04 Oct 2009, 7:23 am

skafather84 wrote:

Also, there's still settlements, Gaza is still showing evidence of a very obvious genocide on the part of the Israelis*



You are cheapening the term "genocide". "Genocide" means wiping out or attempting to wipe out an entire race or an entire people. Neither of which occurred in Gaza. In Gaza the Israelis were suppressing rocket fire with infantry attack, air attack and counter battery fire. 99.999 percent of the Gaza folk survived the conflict. What genocide? If the Israelis were serious about genocide they would have nuked Gaza city which they have the means to do.

If you want to complain, then complain about some of the collateral damage. But not about genocide. While you are at it complain that Hamas was using private homes, private property and Mosques as fire bases too.

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04 Oct 2009, 10:23 am

I think the jewish state should be relocated to South Texas while Palestine 100% returns to the Palestinians, then we Jews and Muslims can live in peace like before the advent of Zionism. here are the reasons why the Jewish State should be relocated to South Texas.
1. in South Texas many of the Tejanos (HIspanics in Texas) are descendents of Spanish and Portuguese Jews who were forcibly converted to Catholicism during the Late 14th and 15th century to escape persecution from the spanish Inquisition. these hispanic Desendents still practise Jewish Traditions like lighting candles on Friday night.
2. South Texas is a place where many Mexican Illegal immigrants illegally move from Mexico to USA, Many Mexicans are also descendents of Spanish Jews who were forcibly converted to catholicism durning the Inquisition period, so some Mexicans may want to immigrate to the Jewish State in south Texas, because some Mexicans who are of Spanish Jewish Descent do not feel Catholic.
3. Jews (with Muslims and christians) in spain have contributed to the Discovery of the Americas ,during the reconquest when Christians invaded Toledo from the Moors in the 11th century, Jews with muslims and Christians, helped translate the arab, Indian, Persian, Greek and Roman Knowledge to Latin paving the way for the Renaissance and the Discovery of america. originally Queen Isabella of Spain did not want to back Christopher Columbus for his voyage to find a route to asia, but a converso (a Jewish Convert to Chrisitanity) Luis De santangel advised Queen Isabel to finance Columbus's voyage, most of the people who financed Columbus's voyage were Jews and Converso's (Columbus himself might have been of Jewish origin) when Columbus sailed to his voyage in 1492 (the same time the Jews were evicted from spain) he was accompanied with alot of conversos, one converso was Luis de Torres who was a Physician who spoke arabic (Many Jews and Conversos would have spoken Arabic, because Jews have live with Muslims more thatn Christians did with Muslims) (Columbus thought Chinese was simular to Arabic columbus orig9ianlly wanted to reach China, but he unintended ly discovered the Americas). another converso was Rodrigo de Triana who was the first man in Columbus's crew to sight land, Plus many of the Gallly slaves in Columbus's ships were conversos who were convicted by the Spanish Inquisiton for Judaizing, and most of the money confiscated by Jews during the expulsin in 1492 went to Collumbus's voyage. so i think morally the USA should give south Texas to us whiile we return Palestine 100% to The Palestinians. why Palestine?



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04 Oct 2009, 10:38 am

Laconvivencia wrote:
...

Again, I think you are out of touch.

1. Pushing the problem elsewhere rather then coming up with a solution. I could not think of a worse place to push the problem to than South Texas.
2. Very few, if any identify with their Jewish ancestry. There are small number of Jews in other Central/South American and Caribbean countries from that era. However these people like being citizens in the countries they reside in are on the whole not interested in joining a Jewish state. I know this from asking them.
3. Yeah it is great that you know you history, but it is barely relevant.



showman616
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28 Oct 2009, 7:02 pm

Both parties- Isreali Jews, and Palestinian Arabs, behave pretty much the same way I would behave if I were in their shoes.

I would fire rockets at you if were building "settlements" on my land.
And I would use brute force to retaliate against you if you shot rockets at me.

And so on- back in time- and into the future.

Its hard see eithre party as a true villian.

And for exactly that reason its hard to envision a solution.



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28 Oct 2009, 7:55 pm

Laconvivencia wrote:
I think the jewish state should be relocated to South Texas while Palestine 100% returns to the Palestinians, then we Jews and Muslims can live in peace like before the advent of Zionism. here are the reasons why the Jewish State should be relocated to South Texas.
1. in South Texas many of the Tejanos (HIspanics in Texas) are descendents of Spanish and Portuguese Jews who were forcibly converted to Catholicism during the Late 14th and 15th century to escape persecution from the spanish Inquisition. these hispanic Desendents still practise Jewish Traditions like lighting candles on Friday night.
2. South Texas is a place where many Mexican Illegal immigrants illegally move from Mexico to USA, Many Mexicans are also descendents of Spanish Jews who were forcibly converted to catholicism durning the Inquisition period, so some Mexicans may want to immigrate to the Jewish State in south Texas, because some Mexicans who are of Spanish Jewish Descent do not feel Catholic.
3. Jews (with Muslims and christians) in spain have contributed to the Discovery of the Americas ,during the reconquest when Christians invaded Toledo from the Moors in the 11th century, Jews with muslims and Christians, helped translate the arab, Indian, Persian, Greek and Roman Knowledge to Latin paving the way for the Renaissance and the Discovery of america. originally Queen Isabella of Spain did not want to back Christopher Columbus for his voyage to find a route to asia, but a converso (a Jewish Convert to Chrisitanity) Luis De santangel advised Queen Isabel to finance Columbus's voyage, most of the people who financed Columbus's voyage were Jews and Converso's (Columbus himself might have been of Jewish origin) when Columbus sailed to his voyage in 1492 (the same time the Jews were evicted from spain) he was accompanied with alot of conversos, one converso was Luis de Torres who was a Physician who spoke arabic (Many Jews and Conversos would have spoken Arabic, because Jews have live with Muslims more thatn Christians did with Muslims) (Columbus thought Chinese was simular to Arabic columbus orig9ianlly wanted to reach China, but he unintended ly discovered the Americas). another converso was Rodrigo de Triana who was the first man in Columbus's crew to sight land, Plus many of the Gallly slaves in Columbus's ships were conversos who were convicted by the Spanish Inquisiton for Judaizing, and most of the money confiscated by Jews during the expulsin in 1492 went to Collumbus's voyage. so i think morally the USA should give south Texas to us whiile we return Palestine 100% to The Palestinians. why Palestine?


:o


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28 Oct 2009, 8:03 pm

South Texas sounds feasible, as long as these people are not employed in agriculture.


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31 Oct 2009, 5:34 pm

We cannot ignore the role that Jordan has (or has failed) to play in this history.

Palestinians have no continuous identity as a peoples. There is a fair bit of scholarly research to suggest that the Philistines were not indigenous to the lands that they occupied in pre-Babylonian history. With their subsequent conquest, they became subsumed into the conquering cultures.

Palestinians as we know them today only arose with the ascription of the name "Palestine" to the territory mandated to Great Britain after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The peoples in this territory were ethnically Hashemite, like the people of Trans-Jordan. (Jordan is not called the "Hashemite Kingdom" for nothing.)

However, with the partition of Palestine in 1948, Jordan did not (perhaps could not, certainly would not) absorb displaced populations into Jordan. The "Palestinians" were abandoned by Arabs all around them. This was compounded by ongoing aggression from Egypt and Syria during the period from 1948 until the end of the Yom Kippur War.

Now, none of this excuses the grievous errors made by Israel in their quest for security. But the fact remains that there are Arabs in the Knesset; there have been Arabs in senior government offices (including Deputy Minister of the Foreign Ministry); and in the Israeli Cabinet. The same cannot be said for Jews in Egypt, Syria or Jordan.

Israel is a Parliamentary democracy. Until the Palestinian Authority can demonstrate a similar commitment to democratic principles, it makes a negotiated, lasting peace elusive.


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02 Nov 2009, 3:22 pm

I don't support the muslim nations one bit but if it wasn't for israel, the usa would most likely not have any enemies in the middle east. Either israel should give the land back or america should ditch israel.


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02 Nov 2009, 3:44 pm

history_of_psychiatry wrote:
I don't support the muslim nations one bit but if it wasn't for israel, the usa would most likely not have any enemies in the middle east. Either israel should give the land back or america should ditch israel.


I agree! Israel should give the land back, the day after the Americans give the land here in North American back to the descendants of the aboriginal tribes from which it was stolen.

ruveyn



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03 Nov 2009, 11:53 am

ruveyn wrote:
history_of_psychiatry wrote:
I don't support the muslim nations one bit but if it wasn't for israel, the usa would most likely not have any enemies in the middle east. Either israel should give the land back or america should ditch israel.


I agree! Israel should give the land back, the day after the Americans give the land here in North American back to the descendants of the aboriginal tribes from which it was stolen.

ruveyn


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10 Nov 2009, 3:43 pm

nara44 wrote:
Sand wrote:
That Israel claims concern for civilians is a total and blatant lie.


Would u like to imagine,
If u could,
What would be the fate of a City like Gaza,
were rockets are fired from, daily, Into cities in Israel,
were instead of israel as a target it was the US,UK,Russia,France,
or any other country in the world,
.


Would u like to imagine,
If u could,
What would be the fate of a country like israel,
where they put such a tight seige on Gaza,
so tight that no concrete are allowed for reconstruction
and children don't even have enough school material for a decent education,
and keep in mind that this is all preventable and in Israel's control,
if instead of Hamas were some other weak government,
wouldn't they want to send a signal to Israel to stop the siege?
Ever since Operation Cast Lead (2008-2009 Gaza War), Hamas has
decided to stop firing rockets into israel. Yet the siege remains.
I would say that Hamas is being really patient right now.
And remember in 2008, when Israel put a total siege on Gaza,
it was Hamas who saved the Gaza population from starvation when they broke down the border with Egypt.
Who knows how long israel would've continued the total siege.
I'm not trying to praise Hamas for all of their actions, but this is just to show that if
the Jews or Israel were the weak ones in this conflict, they probably would've resolved to terrorism.