The case for legalizing drugs

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anna-banana
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20 Apr 2009, 1:39 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

anna-banana wrote:

btw, I heard that there's this experimental programme in Switzerland where cancer patients are being treated with LSD. hopefully if it proves to be succesfull LSD will also be legalised by the Swiss (for medical purposes, but still).

Cancer? Seems like a strange choice for them to make :/.

yeah it might have been AIDS patients, I'm not so sure now either

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Saitorosan
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20 Apr 2009, 1:46 pm

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The real reason is that DRUGS CAUSE HARM!

I never denied this and even explicitly said it myslef. The question is whether Prohibition or regulation is more effective at reducing these harms. Prohibition: 70 years and no reduction, nay, even an increase, in drug related harm. Perhaps it is time to take a new approach?

BTW, you have pointed to the opium wars many times to illustrate your point, however, opium was prohibited from sale, trade or manufacture during this period in China's History, and these wars were caused by the ILLEGAL trade of opium from the west, and the threat of losing this income. Clearly, you have not researched as you claim.

To quote vibratetogether, LOL.

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cognito
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20 Apr 2009, 1:47 pm

1. I do think jail for drug addiction has been proven ineffective
2. LSD for brain cancer would make sense, since LSD releases all brain's chemicals en masse.

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Dox47
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20 Apr 2009, 2:52 pm

Damn, I go away for a few hours, and when I come back the baby seals have been clubbed, the soup crackers have been sandblasted, and the pro-prohibition "argument" is lying in smoking ruins. Good job Vibrate, Saito, etc, reminds me of when I first got on here debating gun control with (seemingly) ret*d Canadians.

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cognito
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20 Apr 2009, 3:06 pm

well dox, might be a case of immovable object vs. unstoppable force.

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oli234
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20 Apr 2009, 3:43 pm

Quote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
anna-banana wrote:

btw, I heard that there's this experimental programme in Switzerland where cancer patients are being treated with LSD. hopefully if it proves to be succesfull LSD will also be legalised by the Swiss (for medical purposes, but still).

Cancer? Seems like a strange choice for them to make :/.

yeah it might have been AIDS patients, I'm not so sure now either

Actually one thing it has been used for (and other hallucenegens) is treatment for drug addiction. Doctors have described it as being like going through a years worth of therapy in a day in the right conditions

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20 Apr 2009, 5:35 pm

cognito wrote:

:wall: dude, you are 100% talking out of your ass. Have you ever seen someone addicted to drugs? I doubt it.

I saw people addicted to alcohol and to meth (in my closer circles). I know precisely what happens, I saw the symptoms of physical and mental decay, and ruined lives.

But: We had to see what policy does more harm: A regulated regime of restricted access to all drugs or a total prohibition. The total prohibition of alcohol did in the USA much more harm than the restricted access today (and in the most other countries). This is the same case with all other drugs.

cognito wrote:

I promise you people will claim the goverment is putting something in the goverment regulated drugs.

It would be new that the Swedish ever accused their government of doing so, even the government has in Sweden the monopole of selling alcohol.

cognito wrote:

And as for suggesting its easy to get drug laws passed in the US, you have no f***ing idea about the USA legal and legislative system! So before you try and fail on lecrturing about the law making process, go to your library and pick up a book on the US legislative and Judicail process. Then go look up the US constitution.

I know the US-Constitution quite well - legal matters are one of my obsessions. I don't know anything which may could prevent congress of either imposing such a system on a federal level or allowing the states to do so. The Supreme Court supported the federal ban on grass, but nothing in this judgement says that congress shall not be entitled to impose a registered regime of selling drugs.

cognito wrote:

To those saying all drugs should be legal, go to child welfare services and ask them what kind of childhood a kid has when he grows up with a crack addicted parent. You have never seen the devastation drugs yield. The arguement that simply passing a law will make everything alright is 100% naive and nonsensical!

It will not be perfect, but better than the current situation, when someone with drug addiction seeking help may be faced with a prosecution.

claire-333
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20 Apr 2009, 5:41 pm

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Last edited by claire-333 on 21 Apr 2009, 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dussel
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20 Apr 2009, 5:50 pm

cognito wrote:

I am sorry but you clearly have more faith in humans then I do. And you have yet to address my main question, if this is such a "good" idea, then how come no goverment any place in the world has allowed the sale of hard drugs?.

We are democratic societies and unfortunately "war on drugs" is, because of the misguided information of the mass media (just pick up a copy in the UK of the notorious "Sun") the politicians see this as the ultimate vote looser. You may have a closer look into the Report the "Royal Society for the encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce", Britain's oldest (founded 1754) and one of the most respected think-tanks delivered regarding this subject. This report is compiled by high ranking lawyers, police officers, social workers and physicians.

http://www.rsadrugscommission.org.uk/pd ... Report.pdf

All through the report has bee complied specific for the UK, the finding can easily be transformed in any other western country. Those are the experts and may have a read first, before you argue further.

richardbenson
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20 Apr 2009, 5:59 pm

the reason why indians and natives can handle dope well, (all but alcohol) but hullicinagins is because since the time they were on there grampas knee they've seen it, and expected to do it one day thinking it was normal. the reason why it wont work in the real world is because everyone from a young age is told drugs are bad, and yadda yadda yadda. and so they grow up in that enviroment, thats why drug legalization wont work in most modern sociatys, like americas.
i still think drugs are bad but maybe i'll relax my role a little bit :lol:

Dussel
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20 Apr 2009, 6:01 pm

cognito wrote:

it was only brought under control by the communist goverment because they enacted harsh measures, like public excution for possesion.

It was brought under control by the economy - the same reason why the former GDR (East Germany) never had a drug problem, except alcoholism (but this more massive than west Germany); The opium was imported and after the communist revolution no one wanted the Chinese currency, because it was worthless outside China. The same was the case with the East German Mark.

Which brings me back: So long in the drug business the profit margins are as high as they are today, so long you will have a market, because people doe drugs since millennia and no government ever could stop people doing so. The question is only to have a regulated market or a black market. I do prefer for such substances a regulated market.

Dox47
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20 Apr 2009, 6:05 pm

cognito wrote:

well dox, might be a case of immovable object vs. unstoppable force.

If by "immovable" you mean stubborn, mulish, hostile to logical reasoning and operating on ego rather than fact, then I agree with you. BTW, are you the baby seal or the soup cracker? I keep mixing the two up.

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claire-333
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20 Apr 2009, 6:07 pm

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Last edited by claire-333 on 21 Apr 2009, 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

richardbenson
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20 Apr 2009, 6:14 pm

claire333 wrote:

richardbenson wrote:

most native americans of the world practice in shamanism. where the elder, high priest, or whathave you takes drugs to make you hallucinate, cure you and just about everything else you want/need. those indian kids grew up one day into that, americans kids didnt.

cognito
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20 Apr 2009, 6:15 pm

Dox47 wrote:

cognito wrote:

well dox, might be a case of immovable object vs. unstoppable force.

no, I am refering to your inablitly to even consider my view point, I try to see it from your view but all I get back is a run around and paper math. Not too mention my point of if it is a good idea, why isn't being done, I get called a mouth for proganda and I am using the notion that humans aren't logical, why else do millions of people pray to a jewish lich every sunday?

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claire-333
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20 Apr 2009, 6:16 pm

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Last edited by claire-333 on 21 Apr 2009, 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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