Is there any proof God exists?

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Uniformitarian geology (that is assumed simply because it augments the rest of the superstition) has so many flaws and inherent contradictions in it that if I thought you were an honest man I would be astounded that you were claiming it in defence of the ideology. However, none of your crew seem to give a rat's **** for honesty or science or consistency. Anything that serves your ideological purpose is, by that fact alone, therefore true... no other justification required.

All of us farmer types know for sure that plant and animal remains do not lie around for millions of years waiting to become a fossil. Even animal bones exposed to sun and rain and earth barely last even 2 years before they're disintegrated and dissolved. A catastrophe like being buried in anaerobic mud away from sun and rain is the only way to form fossils of anything.

Anyhow, without getting bogged in too much useless pernickety I'll leave anyone interested to peruse this lot and fabricate some nonsense story about how to fit it all into billions of years of uniformitarian geology.

http://s8int.com/page8.html

The likes of david and rho make me shake my head in bewilderment. For what they are claiming to be true there would need to be a massive world wide conspiracy involving literally millions of people and lasting for well in excess of 200 years. And what is the purpose of this conspiracy one might well ask, apparently it is to refute the absolute truth of the bible. Forget about all the incredible discoveries resulting technologies that we are all using today. They believe this conspiracy even though many of the paleontologists who found and stored fossils, and dinosaur bones, were deeply religious people.

Seriously have you ever stopped to consider the implications of what you are claiming? Have you, for the merest of seconds considered what would be needed to carry it off?

You both crap on about entropy even though you have been shown just how ridiculously wrong you are, rho continues to believe all of science is invalid because a series of steps used to determine voracity "cannot be empirically verified" even though the evidence for the efficacy of these steps is so great almost to be beyond measure. Even when frauds are discovered by these steps, this is not enough, no the fact that frauds exist, - in their minds- completely undermines the value of all knowledge gained since the introduction of these steps.

And why do they think this, why? Because a series of short stories written several millennia ago by people who had no understanding of weather patterns let alone gravity, tell them how it actually is.

If ever there was evidence for the delusional state, surely young earth creationist's provide it. I mean ffs David you are a cattle farmer, where the bloody heck do you think all the energy comes from for you to fatten your cows, how the heck do you think you get to choose which to stock from such a diverse range of cattle .

Essentially people who believe in the kind of conspiracy you do have clearly lost all sense of reason. There is absolutely no point discussing anything with the likes of you as you will never admit to being wrong. Recently I purchased a series of lectures on Entropy. One of the reasons being if someone can be so absolutely certain that I have the wrong idea on a subject, then maybe I have got it wrong. So I listened to the lectures and when the series on evolution and life came up I admit I felt uneasy, there was a distinct possibility that my previous held understandings were about to be turned upside down. They weren't, but the point is David, unlike you I was prepared to be shown I was wrong, I was prepared to learn that there was indeed a problem with the mathematics of complexity, life, evolution and entropy. I was prepared to be challenged and have my understandings changed forever. You are not.

The really sad thing is some of these people are not scientifically illiterate, yet they choose to reject science in place of religion. Kurt Wise is a most telling example, after going through the bible and cutting out the bits that did not agree with science, Kurt Wise (someone who had the best of scientific knowledge in the area of geology and evolution) writes what happened next.

So here we have a true scientist, who knows the science of evolution is sound, yet he cannot remove himself from his belief in god and the bible. Such is the power of delusion

Kurt Wise

Last edited by DentArthurDent on 17 Mar 2015, 5:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

I am sorry but when I saw and read these images I couldn't stop laughing so hard it brought tears to my eyes!Too bad the OP of this vid disabled all comments!1:35 to 2:02 was hilarious!

God is not real he is make believe and imaginary it is time to put childish things to rest and grow up!You will die there is no magical place that is it just blank darkness and memories! Praying wont change anything and is a waste of time!God is fake and Jesus isnt coming back either he killed himself and wasted his own life for ingrateful as*holes that is it!

It's not cool to post an image of Jesus giving somebody the "finger."

Might be off topic slightly as I haven't followed exactly what items you're debating with AngelRho and Oldavid but looking at what's happened, ie. the drift toward materialism and away from spirituality, my own take on the topic is going toward it being a lot less conspiracy and more a nuts & bolts practicality concern.

If you read anything about the Hermetic Golden Dawn or diaspora organizations and the different workings and initiations toward 'knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel' (ie. modern way of initiating the John of the Cross experience) you find that it's a 'do x to get y result' kind of thing all the way through. The problem is you're looking at potentially years of daily ritual and meditation, plenty of people get to that point of being able to converse and listen with their inner self, experienced very much as you had in St. John's poetry, however there are no shortcuts.

Add to that it's a 'technology' that can neither be industrialized nor weaponized. We've spent the last couple centuries figuring out what we could dig up out of the ground, reshape and chemically process to fit our specifications, and this kind of thing - ie. the spiritual quest - is the opposite, ie. it shapes us to its specifications. From that perspective it falls into that category of 'profound but impractical'. Add to that the subjective basis of much of the experience and trying to pin down the segues between subjective and objective, a world where the material sciences are easier and more responsive by a long-shot, add science's impulse to fight to survive against religious fundamentalism, and I think even those few components are enough for the kind of stand-off we have in our culture where the politics have shifted from science as a culture vs. fundamentalist repression to science as a culture vs. anything claiming to support anything other than reductive materialism - even scientists claiming experimental results that don't match.

Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 17 Mar 2015, 9:06 am, edited 3 times in total.

Be careful what one wishes for.

While it doesn't matter what symbol ones uses for the emotional and sensory gifts of reality,

Folks who stop IMAGining, Creating, and Believing with Faith and Hope in what they aim to do, often never reach any realization of either success or self-actualization in life.

It's not the metaphor ALONE that counts, it's the essence of what ones does WITH THE SYMBOLIC METAPHOR AS GUIDE AND TOOL in 'JUST DOING LIFE' that TRULY COUNTS.

AND THAT doesn't work well without the real life emotional, sensory, imaginary, and creation activities that can make humans like real supermen and superwomen in life.

The SO-CALLED philosopher Jesus, OR WHOMEVER RELATED THE WORDS OF TRUTH, simply knew this from looking within, tried to share it to help other ignorant folks and was POTENTIALLY 'crucified' and or 'banned' from the ignorant herd of society.

Now we have the Internet, so at least 'his' ideas can be reborn untarnished with myths THAT comfort the fears of the ignorant herd OR INSTILL FEAR TO CONTROL THE HERD WHO are simply afraid of now, as all there that exists in THE HEAVEN OF NOW.

NOW, CONSIDERING THAT HEAVEN CAN BE NOW, with human imagination, creativity, and the self empowering human emotions of relative free will, belief, faith, and hope, it's seriously not a good idea to throw the truth out with the dark waters of the myths that have resulted in much pain, and suffering, and even killing of millions of folks.

However, that same myth, per the darkness of it that still exists, and even the darkness of the original psychopathic leaning Roman Empire Emperor Constantine and Catholic Cohort Leaders who started the myths to control folks through repression, oppression, and subjugation of their HUMAN Nature per GOD given human natures, to expand the power and control of the Roman Empire and Catholic Church, no matter how dark it is, the HOUSING OF THE MYTHS CONTINUED THE VEHICLES AND VESSELS OF METAPHOR THAT ARE INCLUDED in the bible that DO INCLUDE TRUTHS ABOUT THE HUMAN CONDITION FOR HUMAN SELF HEALING AND CREATIVE POWER.

Life in ALL ITS CULTURAL WAYS is full of BS propagated by folks, and religion is certainly not exempt from that.

To live now, successfulLY, is to be able to sift the BS from the TRUTH and simply or more complexly, just live an amazing natural GOD GIVEN per Mother Nature TRUE gift of life THAT CAN BE human nature.

And at least I prove that is possible with irrefutable proof, and of course I am far far, from the only one that does that every single day, IN NOW, who is simply awakening, enlightened, educated, and gifted enough to discern the truth from BS.

Disregarding the TRUTH though, in favor of cynicism of the LIGHT OF TRUTH, IS A DANGEROUS PATH, ONCE AGAIN, TO FALL TO THE DARKNESS OF FEAR OF THE DARK, OR A LIFE FILLED WITH GENERAL ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, PANIC ATTACKS, DEPERSONALIZATION, CHRONIC STRESS, A MULTITUDE OF SOMATIC DISORDERS, AND ALL THAT COMES WITHOUT creative PHYSICAL Intelligence that even science is now starting to show, regulates emotions, integrates senses, and expands cognitive executive functioning through better focus and short term working memory.

All the stuff that life spent still focused on two feet or 4 inches or so of screen less than two feet from one's face will never ever do, with a life spent stuck in one's head, as basically a talking head.

Truly there isn't anything much scarier than that, in the potential full of life, on the frigging 'Twilight Zone' series.

As a child in the 60's and 70's, the folks I grew up with hated going inside and watching TV at night, 'cause they knew and had a REFERENCE POINT OF what it was like to be wild and free experiencing a full range of emotions and senses IN MIND AND BODY BALANCE, out in the wild, as they knew what it was like to be 'BORN FREE', LIKE 'CHRISTIAN' THE LION.

IN FACT, THIS LION IS JUST AS GOOD OF AN EXAMPLE OF A 'HUMAN' BEING, AS so-called JESUS.

Hells Bells, maybe Christian the Lion is GOD incarnated on earth along with all the OTHER animals of Nature, and humans are the real ANIMAL 'devils' on this planet, per the cultures they propagate that are defacing this naturally beautiful earth with trashy skyscrapers and other 'roads' of human artifacts of collecting, power, greed and material selfishness without concern for their fellow animals and the rest of Mother NATURE TRUE AKA GOD.

AT least Christian THE LION, gives a crap about other species, who live harmoniously with him.

AND I'LL LEAVE YA WITH THAT IF YA HAVEN'T SEEN IT.



'The Lion' stayed 'human', at least in part, 'cause no one trapped him behind a scream of bright-lit limiting physical intelligence screen.

Yes, frigging Hells Bells, sometimes 'I' just wanna flood this place and 'conJURE' up something like 'Hurricane Katrina', to get rid of this disease of the VIRUS OF THE infrastructure of HUMAN culture but then I remember the other animals, and THE nice humans and just WILL NOT 'do it', 'again'..

SO YEAH, I'll leave ya, with this song too, in remembrance of the POWER OF NATURE AKA GOD, AND THE WEAKNESS OF HUMAN BEINGS.

BLUE OYSTER CULT'S 'GODZILLA' WILL WORK well TOO, AS NATURE AKA GOD PROVES TIME AND TIME AGAIN, THE FOLLY OF HUMAN BEING CULTURAL LIES.

But anyway, I'm sorta in a 'Hells Bells' Mood this morning, as I have dreams of 'BULLS' Spearing folks last night with mighty 'SHARP HORNS'.



The ironies in life are both delicious and sad.

'Humans' take the land away from indigenous mind, body, and Nature AKA 'GOD's balanced people', and THESE 'SO- CALLED' 'HUMANS', expand 'their' creature comforts with machines, until one day the 'machines rule humans' AND 'INFLICT' ALL KINDS OF 'SUFFERING, PAIN, MISERY, AND PREMATURE DEATHS', ON THESE GREEDY, SELFISH, UNWITTING VICTIMS OF THEIR OWN FOLLY.

GOD AND ME, and the other really smart animals, and others, just sit back and watch the folly, while humans shoot themselves in the foot, no matter how much "we've" 'always tried to help'.

Yep, there is 'Karma', and it is unescapable, witting or not.

While one cannot judge another person WITH HUMAN EYES, EQUITABLY, one cannot stop 'Karma' in all the light and dark of that either.

So yeah..

'HELLS BELLS'......

Enjoy the 'ride' if ya can.

I've found A path that works, and that is what counts for me, living in balance with Nature AKA GOD.

IT MAKES FOR GREAT 'KARMA' InOW!

And 'some people' are traveling with me on a similar path, and 'always have'.

They are the

'lucky ones', too....



IN CELEBRATION OF ST. PATRICKS DAY TOO!

YNOT! MAKE EVERY NOW A FEAST AND CELEBRATION OF THE CREATIVE TRULY HUMAN DANCE OF LIFE FREE AND WILD LIKE CHRISTIAN THE LION.

HELLS BELLS! THAT MY FRIEND! IS WHAT I DO. ! IN FLESH AND BLOOD, ALWAYS NOW, INSTEAD OF MACHINE MIND AND CULTURAL ARTIFACT OF PAIN.....

Happy St. PAddy DAY!

FRED.

Peer review is a sieve with pretty large holes. The reviewers just read the papers to see if they pass the gross (rather than fine) 'seems legit' test. It's not like they re-do the experiment to see if they get the same result. Thus papers with fake/fraudulent data will get through. To me this underlines the importance of repeatability of experiments. Nothing must ever rest on one paper/one experimental set.

Peer review is not a stamp of accuracy (although I realize it can look that way). It is a stamp of proper procedure that gets a paper into a scientific journal,nothing more. An experiment that followed proper procedure but was poorly designed will get through. So will papers where the author outright lied about experimental results (fraud). Thus papers in journals are not the end of the line for scientific knowledge. They are just a data point along the way- a point that will be discarded if fraud is found (and it does get found) or if the results can't be replicated possibly because the data collection or methodology was sloppy.

A knowledgeable and honest man (more than one,actually) did indeed examine the evidence in 1915.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man

So why did the Piltdown Man hoax stand for 40 years?


The initial skeptics (like G.S. Miller) were not British but I must point out that the ultimate end to the hoax did come from British scientists (see timeline in the wiki link).

Science as a body of knowledge over time does self correct.

The really sad thing is even people like me who believe in the teachings of the bible and in a creator, yet believe in an old earth and science, get labeled as creatards despite having views quit similar to your own. Creation may require a creator, but I could care less how God does it.

fact
NOUN
a thing that is indisputably the case.


So, no is your answer.

The ability to lie to ourselves is the vehicle we use to pull ourselves from hell.

Without it, we have only divine honesty.

Finding God is not the point, and contrary with our objectives here on Earth.

Find yourself instead. It may be just as elusive.

In short…take everything with a huge grain of salt!

Excellent reply, btw. I'll take honesty over agreement any day.

Yep....everything...including the existence of gods.

The answer to this question will, to a very large extent, depend on what you are willing to accept as 'proof'. Most atheists, when they ask this question, actually mean 'Is there any evidence that God exists?', and they have in mind evidence that is susceptible to the method that the practice of science uses to test all other claims about the physical universe.

No, God (if such exists) would not be just another 'thing' that resides within physical reality, for how can the very source of that reality be in any way subservient to that which it was ultimately responsible for? The rules of nature would not, because they could not, apply, so to search for 'evidence for God' is a pointless waste of time. However, it should be pointed out that absent the existence of God one is faced with the inevitability of an infinite regress of purely physical, and therefore contingent, causes for why there is what there is. What is required to account for why we are even here in the first place, is a 'source of actuality' (D. B. Hart) that is necessary (ex. in the same way that mathematical truths - 2+2=4 - are). Something transcendent, non-physical, non-contingent and atemporal.

Therefore, God exists (because it must exist).

Janissy I don't think any one supporting science on this thread has suggested that simply reading a paper is all that is required for peer review. Cold fusion is a good example. The paper was received with a great deal of fanfare. The continuation of the peer review was repiition of the experiment which to date has not repeated the data.