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Is this Immoral?

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Is this Immoral?
Yes 29%  29%  [ 5 ]
No 71%  71%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 17

Dionysus
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10 Jun 2009, 4:02 am

My friend and I are both full time university students in Australia. She is a homosexual female and I am a heterosexual male. For being full time tertiary students from a rural area we are both paid an allowance by the government for rent and food etc. The allowance is slightly more than half what we would recieve if we were on an unemployment benefit (the dole). However both memebers of a married couple qualify for the 'independant' rate of payment for study which is nearly twice the amount. My friend and I recently dicussed registering as being married in order to be eligable for the higher rate of pay.

The question I am asking is, In your opinion would it be immoral to willingly enter into marriage for financial reasons? I ask for your opinions because both mine and my friend's financial situation is challenging enough for it to be a severly tempting option.



just_ben
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10 Jun 2009, 4:15 am

I think that's called benefit fraud in England. Before asking about the morality, you should probably check the legality of it in Oz, for your own sake.
Personally, I think it's immoral to 'pretend' to be married in order to get a bit more money. IMO it's lying. Sorry if that's not the answer you wanted.


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Dionysus
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10 Jun 2009, 4:18 am

No I was more or less expecting something along those lines. The legality of it isn't a problem the way I was thinking of doing it but I was having some pretty serious consideration of the ethics side of things. I've just thought about it and justified it to myself so much that I really thought it was time to get some valid external input.



Saspie
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10 Jun 2009, 4:21 am

I personally see the ONLY benefit to marriage is to get tax benefits or other legal benefits. So no, I do not see it as immoral. Financial benefits were the main reasons why people married in the past though these days people tend to prefer marriage to be love-based.



pandd
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10 Jun 2009, 8:06 am

Depends on your view of marriage, and the reason why being married attracts this benefit but not been married does not.

Is this an arbitrary age based discrimination that married students are excepted from (reduced entitlement for students under a particular age despite materially same financial circumstances)?



ruveyn
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10 Jun 2009, 9:02 am

Dionysus wrote:
My friend and I are both full time university students in Australia. She is a homosexual female and I am a heterosexual male. For being full time tertiary students from a rural area we are both paid an allowance by the government for rent and food etc. The allowance is slightly more than half what we would recieve if we were on an unemployment benefit (the dole). However both memebers of a married couple qualify for the 'independant' rate of payment for study which is nearly twice the amount. My friend and I recently dicussed registering as being married in order to be eligable for the higher rate of pay.

The question I am asking is, In your opinion would it be immoral to willingly enter into marriage for financial reasons? I ask for your opinions because both mine and my friend's financial situation is challenging enough for it to be a severly tempting option.


Marriages have been arranged through the ages for prudential, political and economic reasons. If you are going to be legally married then have sexual relations at least once to complete the forms. It is legal and there is nothing immoral about it.

ruveyn



monty
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10 Jun 2009, 9:09 am

In addition to ethical/legal issues, there are practicality issues. You assume a degree of legal responsibility for the debts of another when married. If you get married, and a few years down the road, you part ways, it will cost you to get the marriage dissolved. And it will probably interfere with dating - many young women won't want to analyze your explanation ... when they hear you are married, they immediately change the way they think about you.



Saspie
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10 Jun 2009, 9:10 am

ruveyn wrote:

Marriages have been arranged through the ages for prudential, political and economic reasons. If you are going to be legally married then have sexual relations at least once to complete the forms. It is legal and there is nothing immoral about it.

ruveyn


Sexual relations are not necessary these days in Australia for a marriage to be valid.



ruveyn
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10 Jun 2009, 9:17 am

just_ben wrote:
I think that's called benefit fraud in England. Before asking about the morality, you should probably check the legality of it in Oz, for your own sake.
Personally, I think it's immoral to 'pretend' to be married in order to get a bit more money. IMO it's lying. Sorry if that's not the answer you wanted.


Not if the parties have sexual relations and assume the legal debt entailment of the marriage. Motive counts for nothing. Signing the marriage contract and being bound by its terms counts for everything.

ruveyn



Dionysus
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10 Jun 2009, 9:22 am

pandd wrote:
Depends on your view of marriage, and the reason why being married attracts this benefit but not been married does not.

Is this an arbitrary age based discrimination that married students are excepted from (reduced entitlement for students under a particular age despite materially same financial circumstances)?


As far as I can figure that's exactly what it is. There was some form of protest a few months back at one of the universities with an alleged group wedding becasue of it.

Quote:
In addition to ethical/legal issues, there are practicality issues. You assume a degree of legal responsibility for the debts of another when married. If you get married, and a few years down the road, you part ways, it will cost you to get the marriage dissolved. And it will probably interfere with dating - many young women won't want to analyze your explanation ... when they hear you are married, they immediately change the way they think about you.


As far as reducing dating prospects I'm honestly not fazed overly, It's not high on my priorities at the moment. I've known this friend for a good number of years and assuming the break is amiable (I can't think of of any reason why it wouldn't at this point, we've lived as flat mates for a year before and this wouldn't involve anything significantly different from that) it wouldn't cost anything past some minor paperwork fees.

Thanks for your input so far guys.


Edit:

Quote:
Not if the parties have sexual relations and assume the legal debt entailment of the marriage. Motive counts for nothing. Signing the marriage contract and being bound by its terms counts for everything.


This was what the plan was so that the whole thing was on the level, at least legally.



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10 Jun 2009, 9:55 am

Marriages are frequently done for the financial benefits to each party. That is not immoral.

However, if you intend to divorce as soon as you both get out of school, I suppose it would be more correct to see it as an effort to defraud the state into giving you more benefits.

It would be no different than moving to a different state (here in America) to get in-state tuition when you have no intention of staying in the state after you graduate.



ruveyn
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10 Jun 2009, 10:39 am

zer0netgain wrote:
Marriages are frequently done for the

It would be no different than moving to a different state (here in America) to get in-state tuition when you have no intention of staying in the state after you graduate.


If all that is required to get the aid is to reside in-State for a specified interval of time, moving out later on is no fraud. The legal requirements to receive the aid have been met. Intention has no place in the matter.

ruveyn



Dionysus
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10 Jun 2009, 10:57 am

zer0netgain wrote:
Marriages are frequently done for the financial benefits to each party. That is not immoral.

However, if you intend to divorce as soon as you both get out of school, I suppose it would be more correct to see it as an effort to defraud the state into giving you more benefits.

It would be no different than moving to a different state (here in America) to get in-state tuition when you have no intention of staying in the state after you graduate.


That was pretty much the idea. I didn't really have much trouble justifying it to myself of having plenty of rationalised arguements why it was ok for me to do I just really wanted to get some perspective and see how much I was actually thinking it over as compared to justifying something I at least partially thought was ethically suspect. That said I don't think I'll feel terribly guilty in manouvering to get some extra support from the state considering I have all intention to use my education to pay taxes for the next few decades.



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10 Jun 2009, 11:29 am

Dionysus wrote:
Quote:
Not if the parties have sexual relations and assume the legal debt entailment of the marriage. Motive counts for nothing. Signing the marriage contract and being bound by its terms counts for everything.


This was what the plan was so that the whole thing was on the level, at least legally.

The two of you have actually discussed that and intend to have sex to avoid accusations of fraud? Sorry if it's too personal a question, but I can't imagine a lesbian agreeing to do that.


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10 Jun 2009, 11:35 am

I'm not gonna lie.

I think it is an awesome plan :lol:

Do what you gotta do



Dionysus
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10 Jun 2009, 11:55 am

Orwell wrote:
Dionysus wrote:
Quote:
Not if the parties have sexual relations and assume the legal debt entailment of the marriage. Motive counts for nothing. Signing the marriage contract and being bound by its terms counts for everything.


This was what the plan was so that the whole thing was on the level, at least legally.

The two of you have actually discussed that and intend to have sex to avoid accusations of fraud? Sorry if it's too personal a question, but I can't imagine a lesbian agreeing to do that.


No I was referring only to the legalities of the paperwork and registering it through the proper channels. We're both rather laid back people and I don't think she'd actually have a problem with it if it really came down to it (She swings that way if the fancy strikes her I think) but carnal relations aren't actually required here to make it valid.