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WelfareCheese
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15 Sep 2009, 8:48 am

It was hard being a missionary in this country. The dictator had forced all Christians underground in secret house groups. They had had a long debate about whether it would be OK to lie if the militia came asking where the Christians are (as Christians cannot lie). They concluded that God would definatly keep the militia from coming to make it so they didn't have to lie, and if they did come, that would be His sign that their work was over and they could go to their glorious rest (and maybe save a few souls with their martyr-dom). They would freely admit their faith and accept the gift of self sacrifice and heaven.

They were huddled in the backroom, praying, when Johnny came in, tears running down his face. Behind him were the soldiers, wearing their trademark combat uniform. "They came". The Christians stood up, grateful smiles on their faces. They had worked so hard, now they could finally go to their rest.

"Line up" barked the soldier. They lined up proudly. "now renouce your faith, one by one, and we will let you go. However, stay silent and you will die." The first three in the line continued praying, and died proudly, with excited smiles for the coming reward. But Roger was weakening. He could hear the shots in the children's room upstairs, as Johnny had not wanted them to be left behind on the amazing journey they were about to take. He started to shake and stammer,

" I, I, er, "

The pastor and his wife, next in line, looked at each other sadly. "Don't do this roger. Think of the glory!"

"I renounce my faith!" screamed Roger frantically, before running from the room, free in the world of man, but lost in sin.

The last two died praising God, telling the soldiers the good news about their salvation before they were shot. The pastors wife jumped for joy and clapped her hands excitedly as they pumped the AK 47 into her. The pastor raised his hands with tears of joy, looking at his wifes body jealously. Pointing to his head, he cried, "Give it to me right here! I'm ready to be with my Lord, don't make me wait any longer! He can save you too!" That brain, that once held so much knowledge on creation science and calvinst theology, now splattered on the wall, the soldiers then left, to continue cleansing.

But one soldier, touched by what he had seen, could not stop hearing the call. That night, he gave his life to Jesus. Then, he fled to the USA, to tell the media what he had seen.

When the people of the USA heard the truth, that Christianity was so real these people would die for it, conversions went up 2000%, and evangelical bible-believing Christianity was on the rise.
Homosexuality, abortion and other sins were wiped out in the name of this public sacrifice. The truth was undeniable, these people were willing to give it all, it was finally proved.

It culminated in a huge televised discussion, watched by the world, where a confused Obama asked James Dobson what it was all about. Obama began to postulate that maybe the believers were sincere, but that does not mean that their particular brand of strict fundamentalist faith should dominate the world. Then, halfway through his sentence, his lip started to shake, and he broke down in sobs of shame. He meekly knelt down as, in front of the whole world, Dobson led him in the sinner's prayer.



Sand
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15 Sep 2009, 10:09 am

This childish farce reads as if it were written for The Onion or Monty Python but it does bring up a question or two about the author if he's not kidding.
Is it improper, in his Christian view, to lie to a thug who will kill you if you do not say whatever he demands? Although this may seem a theoretical question, apparently a good many confessions given at Guantanamo are taken as straight truth and presented as such in military tribunals although they were obtained under extreme torture. A large number of Jews "converted" to Christianity during the Spanish Inquisition and several posts on this site cite that many Mexicans who descended from these Jews and are considered Christian nevertheless seem to practice some Jewish religious rites. What does this say about religion?

Can God be fooled by a false conversion or has He the wit to comprehend that most sensible people are rather fond of staying alive?

Even a mentally challenged Christian should be able to consider these questions.



pandabear
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15 Sep 2009, 11:24 am

Christians in Nero's time supposedly took pride in being tortured to death.



mgran
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15 Sep 2009, 11:42 am

That line about the person who fled, "lost in sin, but alive in this world", is just diabolical. Who is anyone to declare that someone who was afraid was lost in sin? I thought that we, as Christians, were not to judge, lest we be judged by the same standards. Many Christians I know are afraid to defend their faith in Jesus because they'll be teased, as though words were so damaging, and then you see them lapping up stories like this one. If the story is true (and it's so tritely written that it's hard to believe it could be true) then it's been unbearably dumbed down, and given a "Foxes' Martyr" spin which is incredibly distasteful. If "Roger" is real, then I'm sure God is still with him, even if he did run away. After all, he wouldn't be the first Christian who ran away from danger... with the exception of John every one of the disciples ran. God didn't say that they were lost in sin at that point, did He?

The author has a nasty, little, and uncompassionate mind.

Edited to add: Now I've managed to read past the ugly little line in the middle, and I've pondered the title, I've realised that this isn't a true story at all, but rather an atheists parody of Christian martyrdom stories. I'm relieved. I didn't think a genuine Christian could have written it. Also, the statement that the author has a nasty mind doesn't stand. It would have been profoundly nasty if the story were true, but as parody it's just shocking, and I hope, inaccurate.



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15 Sep 2009, 12:37 pm

The fiction is rather absurd. I mean, it is a fantasy and ridiculous on the level of a past fiction writer who wrote about converting Richard Dawkins with a simple question about consciousness.(Dawkins is presumably a friend of Daniel Dennett, another one of the 4 horsemen and a philosopher of mind, so Dawkins is unlikely to break down like that)

I mean, I respect determination, I respect determination unto death, I respect determination unto death for the absurd, but I do not respect dressing up the absurd in clothing of realism in a non-joking manner.

Here is where the absurdity comes in:
"Christianity was so real these people would die for it"
This fact is not one that most people would deny. A lot of people won't die for Christianity perhaps, but a lot of people will and have died for so many other causes that this evidence becomes evidence of nothing. Scores of nationalists have died for their nation. Communists died for the supposed rise of the proletariat and their state cult. Muslim terrorists have a faith so real that they already do die and kill for it.(not saying that they worship true Islam, only that they have a faith) Suicide cults abound across the world, and they (obviously) die for their beliefs. All of these other beliefs have to be considered wrong for Christianity to be true, and because of this, Christianity needs an exceptional proof rather than one that anyone can furnish. Because of that, we see a bit of an absurdity here.

Additionally a "confused Obama" giving himself up before the Christian dominionist James Dobson just seems um... deeply wrong in some form or fashion.

Finally, the theological perspective is something I could never sink myself into.(and perhaps also has absurdities in it's own right)

"Think of the glory!"
This is reflective of the idea that the true end of man is to be God's cheer squad forever and ever, and of a God so transcendent that man is just trash before such an entity. For some reason, this just seems the most negative and degrading view of mankind, that we are spawned from the incomprehensible for purposes that are utterly pointless, to be judged by this being by the justice emanating from supreme power rather than any non-arbitrary standard, and that our very beings are ruled by the arbitrary whims of this entity, who ultimately decides whether we commit the crimes that are later decided to be crimes and then punished.

"creation science"
Is not considered science by most scientists or philosophers of science. I mean, for the most part, these people are committed to claiming that the world is 6-10 thousand years old, and trying to rework all things backwards to fit that conclusion more so than engaging other scientists. To a certain extent, it seems as if the real desire is just to suppress past scientific discoveries to support a conclusion that seems even less valid than those discoveries. Is this to say that science is a perfect process? No, but would I say that science is more valid then a bunch of zealots who are going around trying to debunk scientific progress? Sure.

Finally, is there some form of contradiction here?

"calvinist theology" and "touched by what he had seen","When the people of the USA heard the truth... conversions went up 2000%"

After all, if salvation is Unconditional, and by Irresistable grace (U and I from TULIP) then why are external events truly effective at converting people? It seems to me that in order to suppose the kind of changes you seem to want, you have to suppose some form of synergism, where man and God cooperate on salvation. However, if you suppose monergism, then the actions of our missionary should logically be worthless in saving anybody's soul, as salvation then proceeds from the will of God alone. You might say I have gotten something wrong, but please then, tell me where I am mistaken in looking at the logical outcomes of a theological view.

Also, perhaps you really aren't a Calvinist, so the Calvinistic theology of the pastor is wrong despite the pastor having it, however, I would think stories like this display a character highly similar to the writer, as they are often the writer's fantasies.

Finally isn't the statement "Christians cannot lie" possibly one that can be rejected? After all, in the Old Testament, we see that the Jewish midwives under Pharaoh lied and were rewarded, (Exodus 1:17-20) and Rahab lied to her king to be rewarded later. (Josh 2:3-6) So, saying that Christians cannot lie about where they are seems to reject the minimal basic principle that both of those verses seemed to indicate, that lying to save lives is right.



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15 Sep 2009, 12:44 pm

mgran wrote:
Edited to add: Now I've managed to read past the ugly little line in the middle, and I've pondered the title, I've realised that this isn't a true story at all, but rather an atheists parody of Christian martyrdom stories. I'm relieved. I didn't think a genuine Christian could have written it. Also, the statement that the author has a nasty mind doesn't stand. It would have been profoundly nasty if the story were true, but as parody it's just shocking, and I hope, inaccurate.

Actually, I would not be surprised if this is a parody, however, I would not be surprised if it isn't. There are some very ugly corners of self-proclaimed Christianity that you have to contend with. People whose dreams seem to include include suppressing people of all other religions and stoning homosexuals, and who shout out about how people who experience tragedy should have on their thoughts "this is a time where I can REALLY GLORIFY GOD", rather than recognize that as a time to mourn. I mean, there is also John Piper's statement about how a tornado at a Lutheran convention on homosexuality was a reminder of God's rejection of homosexual beliefs.

I mean, I recognize that some Christians see a bunch of wonder in their faith and theology, but there is so much different ugliness out there that one has to disregard just to have that unblemished sight.



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15 Sep 2009, 1:00 pm

I call Poe's Law.


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Anubis
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15 Sep 2009, 1:04 pm

As people have said, this story is rather absurd. However, it's important to protect freedom of belief and religion in general. To me, that was the only valid message.


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gina-ghettoprincess
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15 Sep 2009, 1:06 pm

I'm fairly sure this is a parody, people.


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Sand
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15 Sep 2009, 1:09 pm

Henriksson wrote:
I call Poe's Law.


I had to look up Poe's law in Google. At first I thought it might have been something like Cole's law which is made with cabbage.



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15 Sep 2009, 1:19 pm

Sand wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
I call Poe's Law.


I had to look up Poe's law in Google. At first I thought it might have been something like Cole's law which is made with cabbage.

Or maybe you could have clicked the little linky I was generous enough to provide in my post? :P


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Sand
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15 Sep 2009, 1:27 pm

Henriksson wrote:
Sand wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
I call Poe's Law.


I had to look up Poe's law in Google. At first I thought it might have been something like Cole's law which is made with cabbage.

Or maybe you could have clicked the little linky I was generous enough to provide in my post? :P


I didn't notice it because it was way down where the sigs lurk but when I did click on it I saw nothing about Poe or his law or his mother in law. Maybe it was inside all that other stuff but it wasn't obvious.



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15 Sep 2009, 1:30 pm

Sand wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
Sand wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
I call Poe's Law.


I had to look up Poe's law in Google. At first I thought it might have been something like Cole's law which is made with cabbage.

Or maybe you could have clicked the little linky I was generous enough to provide in my post? :P


I didn't notice it because it was way down where the sigs lurk but when I did click on it I saw nothing about Poe or his law or his mother in law. Maybe it was inside all that other stuff but it wasn't obvious.

It was right there in my post, imbedded in the words "Poe's Law". Surely, that is not where the sigs lurk?


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Sand
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15 Sep 2009, 1:37 pm

Henriksson wrote:
Sand wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
Sand wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
I call Poe's Law.


I had to look up Poe's law in Google. At first I thought it might have been something like Cole's law which is made with cabbage.

Or maybe you could have clicked the little linky I was generous enough to provide in my post? :P


I didn't notice it because it was way down where the sigs lurk but when I did click on it I saw nothing about Poe or his law or his mother in law. Maybe it was inside all that other stuff but it wasn't obvious.

It was right there in my post, imbedded in the words "Poe's Law". Surely, that is not where the sigs lurk?


Right you are! The link mark didn't show until I put my cursor on it. No wonder it's called a cursor.



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15 Sep 2009, 1:41 pm

According to that link, Henriksson now gets to boast about being the first to call Poe's law.

Now that I know what it is, it's highly likely that I will immediately call it next time it is applicable. :P


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15 Sep 2009, 2:08 pm

i can for the life of me not find out what this poe's law is

OH CHUCKLE :]


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