Mel Gibson's "Apocalypto": Another Justification f

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LePetitPrince
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13 Sep 2009, 5:33 pm

MissConstrue
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13 Sep 2009, 7:09 pm

Yeah, I think they call that an artstic license.

Anyway that's hollywood for ya.....


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Fuzzy
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13 Sep 2009, 8:35 pm

Yeah, thats hollywood for you. Never a story that isnt twisted. Even minor details.

There is an old Disney movie called "cool runnings" about a Jamaican bobsled team that goes to the winter olympics in Canada. Its based on a true story. Since they dont have a sled the American team gives them a 20 year old sled that they pull out of rental storage... in Calgary Canada? In fact, it happened, but the sled was a Canadian one. Why would Americans pay to store a junk sled for 20 years.. in another country?

But thats American movies for you.

The altruists and heros are always Americans, regardless of history. If the setting predates America, then the good guy is the white guy, intrinsically noble. The Red skins(American Indians) can be noble, but must then be naive. The Brits are always conniving bastards, the Germans always evil fascists. Brown skinned people are innately suspicious. Godless Commies abound, always villains, and unchaste teens are punished with gristly death at the hands of undead psychos.

In Hollywood morality, its perfectly okay for a 10 year old to watch people get murdered, but dont you dare let him see a boobie. Hell will freeze over and society will crumble.

Hollywood is strange. Some would tell you that its run by the Jews, but it sure has a lot of puritan Christian values.. 300 years after their time.

Cotton Mather, get off the celluloid.


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codarac
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16 Sep 2009, 6:22 pm

I didn't see this film as a justification for Western imperialism at all. I think Mel Gibson intended it as an allegorical tale: a warning to Western Civilization, hence the opening quote, "a great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within."

I'm not sure how appropriate that quote is to the civilization in the film or to Western civilization, but I think Mel Gibson intended to draw a parallel.



codarac
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16 Sep 2009, 6:26 pm

Fuzzy wrote:

Hollywood is strange. Some would tell you that its run by the Jews, but it sure has a lot of puritan Christian values.. 300 years after their time.



Here's a good article in the LA Times by the Jewish journalist Joel Stein about how Jewish Hollywood is:

How Jewish is Hollywood?

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 183.column

I have never been so upset by a poll in my life. Only 22% of Americans now believe "the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews," down from nearly 50% in 1964. The Anti-Defamation League, which released the poll results last month, sees in these numbers a victory against stereotyping. Actually, it just shows how dumb America has gotten. Jews totally run Hollywood.

How deeply Jewish is Hollywood? When the studio chiefs took out a full-page ad in the Los Angeles Times a few weeks ago to demand that the Screen Actors Guild settle its contract, the open letter was signed by: News Corp. President Peter Chernin (Jewish), Paramount Pictures Chairman Brad Grey (Jewish), Walt Disney Co. Chief Executive Robert Iger (Jewish), Sony Pictures Chairman Michael Lynton (surprise, Dutch Jew), Warner Bros. Chairman Barry Meyer (Jewish), CBS Corp. Chief Executive Leslie Moonves (so Jewish his great uncle was the first prime minister of Israel), MGM Chairman Harry Sloan (Jewish) and NBC Universal Chief Executive Jeff Zucker (mega-Jewish). If either of the Weinstein brothers had signed, this group would have not only the power to shut down all film production but to form a minyan with enough Fiji water on hand to fill a mikvah.

The person they were yelling at in that ad was SAG President Alan Rosenberg (take a guess). The scathing rebuttal to the ad was written by entertainment super-agent Ari Emanuel (Jew with Israeli parents) on the Huffington Post, which is owned by Arianna Huffington (not Jewish and has never worked in Hollywood.)

The Jews are so dominant, I had to scour the trades to come up with six Gentiles in high positions at entertainment companies. When I called them to talk about their incredible advancement, five of them refused to talk to me, apparently out of fear of insulting Jews. The sixth, AMC President Charlie Collier, turned out to be Jewish.

As a proud Jew, I want America to know about our accomplishment. Yes, we control Hollywood. Without us, you'd be flipping between "The 700 Club" and "Davey and Goliath" on TV all day.


...



ruveyn
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16 Sep 2009, 6:29 pm

codarac wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:

Hollywood is strange. Some would tell you that its run by the Jews, but it sure has a lot of puritan Christian values.. 300 years after their time.



Here's a good article in the LA Times by the Jewish journalist Joel Stein about how Jewish Hollywood is:

How Jewish is Hollywood?

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 183.column

I have never been so upset by a poll in my life. Only 22% of Americans now believe "the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews," down from nearly 50% in 1964. The Anti-Defamation League, which released the poll results last month, sees in these numbers a victory against stereotyping. Actually, it just shows how dumb America has gotten. Jews totally run Hollywood.

How deeply Jewish is Hollywood? When the studio chiefs took out a full-page ad in the Los Angeles Times a few weeks ago to demand that the Screen Actors Guild settle its contract, the open letter was signed by: News Corp. President Peter Chernin (Jewish), Paramount Pictures Chairman Brad Grey (Jewish), Walt Disney Co. Chief Executive Robert Iger (Jewish), Sony Pictures Chairman Michael Lynton (surprise, Dutch Jew), Warner Bros. Chairman Barry Meyer (Jewish), CBS Corp. Chief Executive Leslie Moonves (so Jewish his great uncle was the first prime minister of Israel), MGM Chairman Harry Sloan (Jewish) and NBC Universal Chief Executive Jeff Zucker (mega-Jewish). If either of the Weinstein brothers had signed, this group would have not only the power to shut down all film production but to form a minyan with enough Fiji water on hand to fill a mikvah.

The person they were yelling at in that ad was SAG President Alan Rosenberg (take a guess). The scathing rebuttal to the ad was written by entertainment super-agent Ari Emanuel (Jew with Israeli parents) on the Huffington Post, which is owned by Arianna Huffington (not Jewish and has never worked in Hollywood.)

The Jews are so dominant, I had to scour the trades to come up with six Gentiles in high positions at entertainment companies. When I called them to talk about their incredible advancement, five of them refused to talk to me, apparently out of fear of insulting Jews. The sixth, AMC President Charlie Collier, turned out to be Jewish.

As a proud Jew, I want America to know about our accomplishment. Yes, we control Hollywood. Without us, you'd be flipping between "The 700 Club" and "Davey and Goliath" on TV all day.


...


Absolutely! What do the goyim know, anyway?

ruveyn



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16 Sep 2009, 9:19 pm

So whats up with chopping pretty ladies heads off for fornicating at camp hide-a-way?


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Laconvivencia
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17 Sep 2009, 11:30 am

16th century Spain, the closest you could get to Nazi Germany during the 16th century



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17 Sep 2009, 12:14 pm

Laconvivencia wrote:
16th century Spain, the closest you could get to Nazi Germany during the 16th century


That is right on. In Spain the Inquisition introduced racial notions into who was or was not a proper Catholic. Converts or the descendants of Jews were cast in a bad light. It turns out that many of the descendants of Jews who did not leave during the expulsion in 1491 advanced far in the hierarchy of management of the Catholic church because of their ability. Envy and suspicion introduced the notion of limpienza del sangre (purity of blood) and many such persons were demoted and even imprisoned by the Inquisition. Having Jewish ancestry become cause for being closely monitored by the Inquistion.

In the 16th century it did not pay to have opinions or if one had them, it were best to keep one's opinions to one's self.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

ruveyn



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17 Sep 2009, 12:43 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Laconvivencia wrote:
16th century Spain, the closest you could get to Nazi Germany during the 16th century


That is right on. In Spain the Inquisition introduced racial notions into who was or was not a proper Catholic. Converts or the descendants of Jews were cast in a bad light. It turns out that many of the descendants of Jews who did not leave during the expulsion in 1491 advanced far in the hierarchy of management of the Catholic church because of their ability. Envy and suspicion introduced the notion of limpienza del sangre (purity of blood) and many such persons were demoted and even imprisoned by the Inquisition. Having Jewish ancestry become cause for being closely monitored by the Inquistion.

In the 16th century it did not pay to have opinions or if one had them, it were best to keep one's opinions to one's self.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

ruveyn


You're very into the notion of racial superiority. What's your problem?


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Laconvivencia
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17 Sep 2009, 2:15 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Laconvivencia wrote:
16th century Spain, the closest you could get to Nazi Germany during the 16th century


That is right on. In Spain the Inquisition introduced racial notions into who was or was not a proper Catholic. Converts or the descendants of Jews were cast in a bad light. It turns out that many of the descendants of Jews who did not leave during the expulsion in 1491 advanced far in the hierarchy of management of the Catholic church because of their ability. Envy and suspicion introduced the notion of limpienza del sangre (purity of blood) and many such persons were demoted and even imprisoned by the Inquisition. Having Jewish ancestry become cause for being closely monitored by the Inquistion.

In the 16th century it did not pay to have opinions or if one had them, it were best to keep one's opinions to one's self.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

ruveyn

the Spanish Anti Judaism goes years back before the Spanish Inquisition and the 1492 expulsion, it all started after the Black Death when the Christians were blaming Jews, when Henry II ascended the Throne of Castile (Spain was divided into 2 kingdoms Castile and Araon) in 1369, he introduced these Anti Semitic Laws.
Jews
1) Must Be kept far from palaces;
2) Were forbidden to hold public office;
3) Must live separate from Christians;
4) Should not wear costly garments nor ride on mules;
5) Must wear distinct badges to indicate that they were Jewish;
6) Were barred from adapting Christian names;
7) Were forbidden to carry arms and sell weapons.

in 1391 things got worse, a fanatical Monk unleashed a pogrom which spreaded all around Castile and Aragon to Forcibly convert Jews to Catholicism, many converted to escape persecution, this was the first wave of Marranos (Jewish Converts to Catholicism)

in 1412 the second wave of conversos came a fanatical Monk who became a saint called Vincent Ferrer ordered the kingdoms of Castile and Aragon to inroduce the Infamous valladolid Laws to convert Jews to Catholicism, Under these laws, the Jews were ordered to:

1) Live by themselves in enclosed Juderias;
2) Banned from practicing medicine, surgery, or chemistry;
3) Banned from selling commodities such as bread, wine, flour, meat, etc.;
4) Banned from engaging in handicrafts or trades of any kind;
5) Forbidden to hire Christian servants, farm hands, lamplighters, or gravediggers;
6) Banned from eating drinking, bathing, holding intimate conversation with, visiting, or giving presents to Christians;
7) Banned from holding public offices or acting as money-brokers or agents;
8) Christian women, married or unmarried, were forbidden to enter the Juderia either by day or by night;
9) Allowed no self-jurisdiction whatever, nor might they, without royal permission, levy taxes for communal purposes;
10) Forbidden to assume the title of “Don”;
11) Forbidden to carry arms;
12) Forbidden to trim beard or hair;
13) Jewesses were required to wear plain, long garments of coarse material reaching to the feet, and Jews were forbidden to wear garments made of fine material;
14) On pain of loss of property and even of slavery, Jews were forbidden to leave the country, and any grandee or knight who protected or sheltered a fugitive Jew was punished with a fine of 150,000 maravedís for the first offense.

some time later these lawas were removed, Marrano's were not allowed to return to Judaism.

Vincent Ferrer and a Marrano bishop Paul of Burgos in 1412-1413 ordered the disputation of Tortosa this dispute between Jews and christians was made to humiliate Jews and to convert Jews to Christianity.


in 1449 the first Limpieza de Sangre Law was introduced by the Council of Toledo excluding all Marranos from public office.

in 1478 the inquisition was introduced to deal with all those conversos who are secretly practising the Jewish Religion. in 1492 Torquemada ordered the Expulsion of the Jews from Spain.



Last edited by Laconvivencia on 17 Sep 2009, 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pakled
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17 Sep 2009, 2:36 pm

You know, I saw the movie, and the Europeans show up in the last 5 minutes. To be honest, they're more of a plot twist than anything else in the movie...



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17 Sep 2009, 3:22 pm

skafather84 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Laconvivencia wrote:
16th century Spain, the closest you could get to Nazi Germany during the 16th century


That is right on. In Spain the Inquisition introduced racial notions into who was or was not a proper Catholic. Converts or the descendants of Jews were cast in a bad light. It turns out that many of the descendants of Jews who did not leave during the expulsion in 1491 advanced far in the hierarchy of management of the Catholic church because of their ability. Envy and suspicion introduced the notion of limpienza del sangre (purity of blood) and many such persons were demoted and even imprisoned by the Inquisition. Having Jewish ancestry become cause for being closely monitored by the Inquistion.

In the 16th century it did not pay to have opinions or if one had them, it were best to keep one's opinions to one's self.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

ruveyn


You're very into the notion of racial superiority. What's your problem?


I have no problem. You have a problem. You don't read very well. I made a sharp critique of the racial notions and policies of the Spanish Inquisition and you think I am a racist? How do you come to that conclusion?


ruveyn



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17 Sep 2009, 3:42 pm

ruveyn wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Laconvivencia wrote:
16th century Spain, the closest you could get to Nazi Germany during the 16th century


That is right on. In Spain the Inquisition introduced racial notions into who was or was not a proper Catholic. Converts or the descendants of Jews were cast in a bad light. It turns out that many of the descendants of Jews who did not leave during the expulsion in 1491 advanced far in the hierarchy of management of the Catholic church because of their ability. Envy and suspicion introduced the notion of limpienza del sangre (purity of blood) and many such persons were demoted and even imprisoned by the Inquisition. Having Jewish ancestry become cause for being closely monitored by the Inquistion.

In the 16th century it did not pay to have opinions or if one had them, it were best to keep one's opinions to one's self.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

ruveyn


You're very into the notion of racial superiority. What's your problem?


I have no problem. You have a problem. You don't read very well. I made a sharp critique of the racial notions and policies of the Spanish Inquisition and you think I am a racist? How do you come to that conclusion?


ruveyn


Nevermind, I forget this is an aspie board and themes are constantly repeated. Go on about your day, good citizen.


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17 Sep 2009, 4:19 pm

Fuzzy wrote:
If the setting predates America, then the good guy is the white guy, intrinsically noble.


How about in a film such as Julius Caesar with Charlton Heston?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065922/

Which is based on Shakespeare's play, Julius Caesar.

Both the good guys and the bad guys are white.


During the times after the Punic wars, the slaves the Romans kept were mostly Greek. Also white guys. And after Caesar, Gauls also, who were white guys with beards.

Movies made about these things would have white guys as both the bad guys and the good guys, or possibly both as neither.



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18 Sep 2009, 6:53 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
If the setting predates America, then the good guy is the white guy, intrinsically noble.


How about in a film such as Julius Caesar with Charlton Heston?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065922/

Which is based on Shakespeare's play, Julius Caesar.

Both the good guys and the bad guys are white.


During the times after the Punic wars, the slaves the Romans kept were mostly Greek. Also white guys. And after Caesar, Gauls also, who were white guys with beards.

Movies made about these things would have white guys as both the bad guys and the good guys, or possibly both as neither.


I can see where I missed an exception, but it goes without saying that a white guy can be a villain. A lot of movies have only/no white people in them, and that makes sense depending on setting.

I can also think of several movies that have no formal bad guys at all. That Will Smith movie about golfing for instance.

But to tell you the truth, I am more interested in the strange morality of hollywood movies. The aforementioned murder of the unchaste- unless under the aegis of True Love(tm) - or the consideration of violence being less of a sin(or not at all), as compared to sexuality.


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