We don't live in a police state yet, but we're heading there

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http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,1692214,00.html

I don't normally agree with what's written in that liberal rag, but they do have a point this time . Terrorism is a big threat, and I can accept certain extraordinary measures need to be taken, but as far as things like ID cards and taking DNA from innocent people then holding it indefinately go, well that stinks. Trouble is, politicians of all parties have got their filthy f*****g snouts wedged so far in the trough, or up each others a***holes, that there's not a cat in hells chance of changing anything.

I'm prepared to stick my neck out and go further...

Terrorism is not a big threat. Measures need to be taken but the panic, furore and the rush for legislation is utterly out of proportion to the problem.

I am not going to be killed by a terrorist. My top three risks are heart attack, cancer, and road traffic accident. If you're appreciably younger than me, move the motorists higher up the list.

I think terrorism has been over played and any and all administartions have take advantage of terrorism too. We do need to be secure from the terrorists but it has gone to far. When people rights are infringed on that is when as it has gone to far in the end.

the more technology we have the more likely "big brother" will be watching. Thats a fact. Its easier and more economical every day to track and trace a person. Legaly or illegally. By the government or by some hacker.

The DNA thing, HA! thats already happened! Some companies have gotten DNA profiles even as far back as the 1990's looking for specific health things (there are a few that at that time they could lable without a doubt) that the insurance companies then REFUSED to cover because it was genetic. A railroad company (this was in readers digest a couple years ago) out west had an insurance thing that because of an DNA test they wouldnt cover carpal tunnel treatment because you can be genetically pre-disposed for that. The article was about a man that found that out the hard way.
Other article about this is:
http://www.ble.org/pr/archive/headline021401f.asp

and the EEOC: http://www.eeoc.gov/press/5-8-02.html

ok on Terrorism:
Maybe the militant muslim groups arent the BIGGEST threat, but terrorism, especally of the domestic sort, is A BIG THREAT!!
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/19/domestic.terrorism/

http://www.au.af.mil/au/aul/bibs/tergps/tgdom.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-11-14-domestic-terrorism_x.htm

I could go on. We were training on this kind of thing WAY before 9-11. But the training was not nearly as intensive as what we have now.

I'm still going to differ (but politely, I hope). It's an issue of prominence versus scale.
From your first reference:
"...58 investigations in the past six years related to violence attributed to the ELF and ALF. In the same period violence from groups like the Ku Klux Klan and anti-abortion extremists have declined, Lewis said."

But the USA has 100 road deaths a day.
That's the scale of a twin towers every month, and that one event is taken to have changed the perspective of America, if not the world. But spread out across the country, and happening every day, the casualities don't seem to attract the same notice.
Five Jumbo jets a month falling out of the sky would get headlines and screams for "something to be done."

(I'm not car obsessed, it's just a useful benchmark of risk. And I do drive)

Yes, as a firefighter your training will need to include the correct responses to terror events, though they are unlikely.
In optometry I'm aware of the appearance of diseases (and for a parallel often really nasty ones) that I'm never likely to see. Just in case.

But to go overboard on the exotic and rare is likely to cause more casualties, and do more damage to society, both by neglecting the routine and regular, and by over-reaction.

I posted this earlier but it is about time I posted it again.

http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeye/powerofnightmares/one.html

The passionate eye showed another article on global surveillance in 1997.
Can't remember what it was called.

The threat is in the number of targets that would be "soft targets". There are many factors to the ecoterrorists and nasty extremest groups that make one more of a threat than others. But I see your view point as well. There are many more people dying as as result of drunk driving than of terror attacks. But as a general rule, terror attacks, and this is a GENERAL rule, target multiple people in one shot (as well as the rescuers later in secondary devices) verses something that is not intentional as would be an autoaccident. And most auto accidents dont kill hundreds of people, not do MOST auto accidents even have that potential. People expect to see traffic accidents more than they do a daycare or a school under attack. People expect and take the risk of having a drunk driver hit them when they drive because the illusion of control is there. But people CANT control a terror attack, people dont expect to go to wal-mart or the mall and get blown up. I think that the mind set is the issue.
I have no objection to monotoring the members of these groups such as the kkk, the aryans, other race-hate groups, eco terrorists, and separitist groups. Many arent going to go out and blast some government complex, but they have the potential and many are training their members to do just that. The threat is there and I think educating people what to be on the lookout for is the first step in preventing what could happen. (that education thing would work on our roads too!!)

I'll laugh if this country goes to hell in a handbasket because people think that Rioting is against the rules or something cute like that.

An illusion of safety, and an odd, or at least particular, mindset.
Here we absolutely agree, and it's what perplexes me. It may be an AS thing.

I see it repeatedly. The preference for, or over-reaction to, a perception which is not objectively justified:

Following the bombs in central London last July, sales of bicycles went up.
Never mind the feeling of vulnerabliity when using the buses or underground, and aerobic exercise notwithstanding, cycling in central London is improving no-one's life expectancy (I've done it).

There was a flurry of articles concerning the latest shark attack death in Australia, with speculation as to the new precautions that might be instigated.
I did a quick check. Even excluding swimming pools and lakes, drownings in Australia outnumber shark deaths by a hundred to one. It's not sharks that kill you at the seaside, it's the #%@~&! WATER.

Go figure. Or am I just on the wrong planet?


Back on track, we may be seeing the increase of government, of taxation, of intrusion into privacy. Is it all really going where it will do the most good?

Then there's just the possibility of the intrusion and suspicion producing more terrorists than it catches. Nothing like feelings of being an oppressed and hated minority to push a few people into thinking they have sufficient grievance. As with the above mindsets, the connection with dispassionate reality is not a requirement.

We've been in a police state since Patriot I and II. Bush used 9/11 as an excuse to create it, just like the US and other Govts has been using anti-drug laws to extend police powers and encroach on civil liberties. I highly recommend the film Good Night and Good Luck to see what was happening in the 1950s and how the police state almost came early. Too bad George isn't a booze hound anymore. Or is he?
And let's not forget: our government helped create terrorists by supporting one Islamic government against another (e.g., Iraq v. Iran) and by supplying weapons. If we had found any WMD's in Iraq, I'll bet you real money they would have had "Made In USA" somewhere on 'em--either on the weapons themselves or on the bills of lading. Precedent: IBM and Ford selling materiel to Nazi Germany.
Bush and his bunch are using the threat of terrorism to build up the police state and keep everybody in a state of chronic low-level anxiety, thus helping the military-industrial complex and the psycho-pharmaceutical complex by giving people lots of drugs for their General Anxiety Disorder/Syndrome (GAD or GAS; choose your favorite).
The only weapon we have--or need--is freedom. Keep asking questions, and don't let the bastards grind you down.
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"Big Brother is watching you watching telescreen."

Off topic here,

Doesn't it piss you off that the Guardian is glorified as responsible journalism when it is more biggotted than the Daily Mail?

I think people are fed up with Blair. He is on his way out!! Just look at the bi-election in Scotland today. Labour lost 14,000 out of 38,000 votes to the LibDems.

I have studied the police state mentality, it is hyper-paranoiac.